How Devils Get Ahead In The World

[Kaji]

Looking for imput, valued EnWorldians! I've read a couple of different things here and there that have led me to believe that devils don't stay in one form forever. You're not "born" a Pit Fiend, you advance there from earlier lesser forms (lemure, imp, and so on) but I've had trouble finding anything clear about it. Are there rules for this somewhere that I'm missing, because I really like the idea. X number of years of service, and you get to be a bigger, badder devil to do even more evil in the world. If I can't find the "evidence", I'll HR it anyway, but I'm currently attempting to convince my DM to let me advance my imp familiar in our evil campaign, and I think it would be a lot of fun. Thanks in advance.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I'm currently attempting to convince my DM to let me advance my imp familiar in our evil campaign, and I think it would be a lot of fun. Thanks in advance.

Well...

... there is support for it in D&D fiction, but you probably won't like it.

I think it's in a Salvatore book that it comes up... an imp or a quasit who is a familiar can get 'promoted' by taking its master's soul back to the Hells/Abyss when he dies...

-Hyp.

 

[LokiDR]

In the FRCS there is a section about death, and the city of the dead. Devils are allowed into the city to bargan for your soul, rather than going to eternal damnation. If you were important in life, you had more to bargan with in death.

As for advancing, it looks like Savage Species has some specific rules on that, both as a rite that adds an ECL or as a PrC. That would probably be your best bet, rules wise.

As for me, I am fine with "born to be a pit fiend"

 

[Merlion]

I dont think its really covered much right now but yes I think especialy in 1st edition it was hinted at a lot...manes lemures larvas etc being turned into "real" fiends and then on up...wouldnt be hard to invent ones own rules..

 

[Kaji]

Yeah, I think it's safe to say I'm not handing my soul over to the little devil just so he can get ahead

Part of what sparked the idea is reading the section mentioned by LokiDR about bartering for your souls, but it did not give me all I wanted. I'm just looking for style points with the imp anyway, I'm not going to use the devil thing for much more than that.

 

[Tar-Edhel]

The Book of Vile Darkness has a small passage about Souls as powers. Manes and larvae are simply souls that can be collected and used as currency.

While they don't describe how you get from one demon or devil type to another (not yet anyway, I haven't finished the book yet), the power of a lower plane creature seems to be tied to the number of souls he posseses.

Maybe lower planes creatures type are nothing but suits that you can buy using souls.

A pit fiend suit? Certainly sir, that will be 1 000 000 larvae pease

 

[Gizzard]

Yeah, I think it's safe to say I'm not handing my soul over to the little devil just so he can get ahead

Maybe someone from your party has a soul they arent using? ;-)

Anyway, as Hypersmurph points out, anything that would advance a devil to the next higher form would likely be notably wicked. Returning to the Hells with a certain number of tasty souls, assassinating the devil immediately above it, causing its higher masters to be pleased by loosing a certain amount of evil on the Prime, etc etc. It might be difficult to find a place where your interests intersect with the Imps; after all, he's in this for the eternal long-haul and the currency of trade is going to be something a bit harsher than simple gold.

 

[AuraSeer]

I think it's been stated that fiends don't actually advance. IIRC this was in an Abishai description (since they have all the various colors), but I haven't got my books to check right now.

 

[Staffan]

I'm pretty sure I have read something about devils (well, specifically baatezu) advancing in rank. I don't remember the specifics, but I'm pretty sure it was in the PS box "Planes of Law".

 

[Merlion]

I remember a lot of vague mentions of that sort of thing in 1st and second edition. Wizards really should release some core books on fiends, celestials etc....(maybe they have and I just dont know it)....I dont think a lot of specfics have ever been given though at least not that I myself have seen....