How Did I Become a Grognard?

[AbdulAlhazred]

You really view King Arthur, Galahad, Charlemagne, King Richard the Lion Heart, William the Conqueror and those like them as Clerics?

Weird.

And at the same time you view those like The Bishop in Aquila in Ladyhawke, Turin Archbishop of Reims, or Ordo Bishop of Bayeaux and those as the exact same them as the above.

Doubly Weird.

I think this just says that there are many different views on what classes represent, and we may differ far more in our views (and those intended by the creator of the game) at times than we realize.

What it boils down to is I think a difference of opinion on the similarities in theme and mechanics between different people. I think that's fine that people have different ideas and opinions on the matter. I think that if anything, this is what it really boils down to with the two different groups discussing the similarities or differences between Paladins and Clerics. They have different ideas and opinions on the matter.

Sure, I hear you.

Here's what is weird about the cleric. It actually has a hard time fitting ANY particular concept. If its considered a warrior, then why the weapon restrictions? For that matter, why even if it is a 'priest'? Surely only a very particular sort of guy is restricted to maces, basically Bishop Turpin. Only the cleric ain't no cleric, or bishop. He's got no flock, no bishopric, no religious duties, nothing. I mean, you can create some, as color, but they're not there as part of the class! He's not really a 'wonder worker' either, exactly. That is, you can play your cleric as one, but that does ignore his fighting ability.

I think the class has elements to evoke a couple different concepts, but none of them are fully realized, and its pretty odd, as D&D is not shy of larding restrictions and oddball stuff onto a class to make it do a thing.

Frankly, I think the cleric doesn't correspond to ANYTHING. It is a good class, but only in D&D terms, it simply doesn't match up with anything outside of D&D very well.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Except that at 10th level your Paladin had a pretty decent weapon (if not a +5 Holy Avenger) nevermind all the other Fighter/Paladin only magical equipment.

This was a time before the tax-feat infested 3e, the balanced 4e or the bounded accuracy 5e.

Why wouldn't a cleric likewise have a Mace of Disruption, or a Mace +4? He can wear all the same armor and shields as a fighter too.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Having gone to a Catholic HS taught by monks, I have to agree about how anomalous the D&D cleric is.

 

[pemerton]

at 10th level your Paladin had a pretty decent weapon (if not a +5 Holy Avenger)

That depends entirely on the interaction of random charts and GM decision-making.

The paladin is limited to 10 items - maybe the cleric has Gauntlets of Ogre Power and/or a Girdle of Giant Strength!