How do I get them to switch?

[avaril]

I've played D&D with the same group of friends for the past 12 or so years. When we started, we were still playing 1st Edition, because everyone hated second edition (I was new to RPG's, so I didn't care). When 3rd Edition came out, everyone was excited to finally be able to buy sourcebooks, so everyone bought a copy of the core books. With 3.5, they eventually admitted that it was a needed fix, sold their 3.0 books, and bought new 3.5 sourcebooks.

Now, with 4e, they really don't want to change. I don't think they're too keen on fancy new mechanics, they just want to play and tell their stories. I really want to give 4e a shot, tho. What advantages are there in changing over to 4e that I could sell them on if they're so comfortable with 3.5?

 

[hailstop]

I've played D&D with the same group of friends for the past 12 or so years. When we started, we were still playing 1st Edition, because everyone hated second edition (I was new to RPG's, so I didn't care). When 3rd Edition came out, everyone was excited to finally be able to buy sourcebooks, so everyone bought a copy of the core books. With 3.5, they eventually admitted that it was a needed fix, sold their 3.0 books, and bought new 3.5 sourcebooks.

Now, with 4e, they really don't want to change. I don't think they're too keen on fancy new mechanics, they just want to play and tell their stories. I really want to give 4e a shot, tho. What advantages are there in changing over to 4e that I could sell them on if they're so comfortable with 3.5?

One of the major advantages over 3.5 is that 4e looks like it will significantly decrease the amount of time and effort the DM has to go through to make adventures. You can focus more on story than having to develop creatures and such.

Mechanics-wise, the big plus for me is that everyone has something interesting to do in combats, including the martial types. Yes, the Wizard get's a bit nerfed, but it's a stealth nerf as in 3.5 you really don't use the options to as big of a degree as it seems (usually because you go supernova, the Cleric runs out of healing and then you have to rest).

 

[avaril]

I know one of their biggest disappointments will be that the barbarian isn't in the first PH. One of mine is that the Druid isn't. They never cared much for the Bard or Monk, so they would be fine with them missing.

I'm trying to think of what we would be able to do, combat-wise, that we couldn't do in 3.x.

 

[baberg]

Don't change. Your group is obviously happy not playing the latest-and-greatest (you said you played 1ed when 2nd was out) and you seem happy with 3.5.

Keep playing 3.5.

 

[Wisdom Penalty]

I know one of their biggest disappointments will be that the barbarian isn't in the first PH. One of mine is that the Druid isn't. They never cared much for the Bard or Monk, so they would be fine with them missing.

I'm trying to think of what we would be able to do, combat-wise, that we couldn't do in 3.x.

I'd try to run them through (or have your DM run you through) KotS. While it's hard to make an accurate determination whether 4e is for your group or not based upon one introductory module, it's certainly better than doing nothing.

My group was adamantly opposed to moving to 4e. After doing some homework, trying the sample adventures, and starting KotS - there's no way we could ever do 3e again.

I suspect that'd be the common theme for those folks who are willing to try something new out. Unfortunately, I understand there's a lot to prevent just that from happening - large investments in books for 3e, fear of change, trepidation of a "video gamey" or "no longer D&D" concept, etc.

Anyway, I wish you good luck. 4e is, simply put, just more fun. If that's the barometer you ultimately use when deciding what to play (and I'll allow that's not everyone's primary aim), then you won't go wrong by leaving the old stuff behind.

Wis

 

[baberg]

Don't change. Your group is obviously happy not playing the latest-and-greatest (you said you played 1ed when 2nd was out) and you seem happy with 3.5.

Keep playing 3.5.

As I re-read what I wrote it seems pretty glib and short. I apologize for that.

What I mean is that you should wait for the group as a whole to decide they want to try 4e. Trying to force a new gaming system on somebody rarely succeeds because they're going into it with a bad taste in their mouth. Wait it out and keep playing 3.5 until 4e has the classes that your group wants. By that time the group will probably be interested in 4e and be reading about it, and might be willing to give it a fair shake.

I think trying to push 4e onto a group that doesn't necessarily want it is the wrong thing to do. Let it happen naturally. If you're anxious to try 4e I'd suggest trying to find another gaming group, or try some online play to satisfy your 4e itch while the rest of the group comes along.

 

[caudor]

Why not both?

I'd keep my own 3.5 campaign going and ask them if they would like to try some one-shot 4e adventures on the side (perhaps run them through H1 or something short you make up).

I bet that once some folks get to sample the game play, they may become more interested in 4e.

 

[Durlok]

Why do you want to try 4e?

I'm assuming you like parts of the system you've heard about - well, tell your group about them. Presumably they'll either like the ideas enough to want to try the new system, or they'll be turned off by them and won't. If it's the latter then, well... you're probably just going to have to wait.

 

[fba827]

"Hey kids, you want to try some 4e D&D? Just a taste, it won't hurt. For free, I promise.. what's the harm in that? Everyone is doing it."

take a cue from pushers and dealers.

See if they are willing to try it for 3 sessions as a side-trek from their normal campaign. Using the quick start rules (from DDXP that is online) or stuff from Keep of the Shadowfall. And make it clear that this is just a few one shots because you wanted to try it but then afterwards they can go back to the main campaign - don't make then have to put in any money or effort in their willingness to 'try it out' it will make them all the more hesitant to agree to that first step of testing the waters.

If they like it they'll make their ow reasons for liking it rather than listening to the reasons that you like it.

You may want to coordinate with the DM (if it's not you) so that you aren't introducing this in the middle of stuff when he's trying to keep momentum and instead do it at an 'inbetween spot' of the campaign.

Also, it sounds like the other issue here is they don't want the hassle of selling and buying books. First see if they like it (from testing the waters on the quick start rules) and by then, used or 'still new' books will start appearing for sale on amazon and ebay.

I wouldn't be surprised if ppl are buying the 3-book gift set from amazon (a huge discount comparatively) and reselling the still new books inidvidually for slightly less than retail value. So there will be stuff of good quality to find at slightly cheaper prices.

After all, no need to change _right now_ you have between june 6 and the release of 5e to decide whether or not to switch
Plus, if some people like their bards, druids, barbarians, they will be even more hesitant that those classes aren't released yet.

And if they don't like it, be prepared to just accept that and continue with the fun you can have with 3.5.

 

[mmu1]

In my experience, very few people appreciates attempts to convert them. Moreover, if you're friends, you really shouldn't be acting the salesman...

Tell them straight up that you really like what you've seen so far of 4E, and would appreciate it if they'd give KotS or some other introductory adventure a shot alongside the 3.5 you're playing right now.

If that does it - good for you. If not, leave it alone. They might come around, or they might not.