How do I make it really "low-magic"?

[Surefoot]

I am on the doorstep of beginning with my group with a low level campaign. What we decided on, was to multiclass both the fighter and the caster classes. You cannot go full wizard, and you cannot go full warrior (*kuch* barbarrian/fighter).

Allowable would be fighter/rogue, fighter/sorc, cleric/wiz. Cleric/Paladin is out of the question...

This may make monsters more difficult...

 

[Desdichado]

The first is that for some reason, running a DnD3E low-magic game is apparently hard to do. This seems ridiculous to me. I mean, we've all read LotR, right? How many of them were spellcasters? In the tales of King Arthur, how many there? Why the hell is it that now, in D&D, we can't play a decent game without having a magic item in every "slot" like some kind of magic superhero decked out with every magic item possible? It just seems wrong to me. I would dare even say that, although that may be the way the game is designed, it seems to have gotten "broken" as the kids say, over time, so that now, with each edition that comes out, all these things have become a given. You CANNOT play the game to high character levels and succeed in adventures without having many powerful spells and magic items. Why is that? To me, that's a failing of the system.

I disagree completely. It's not hard to do, but it does take a little preparation. You need to revamp a lot of classes, but most of that has been done for you (you can find easily half a dozen good non-magical ranger variants, for example.) d20 Modern, available for free in the SRD is another good alternative. In fact, that's what I'm doing -- the website in my sig shows my very imcomplete modifications along that line. Most of it is extremely straightforward and easy.

You can use the Urban Arcana 10-level "advanced class" magic-user option, or for even lower magic, you can just make magic work like it does in d20 CoC. All of that is already d20 material, and much of it is free. The only "difficult" thing you have to do, then is ignore (to some extent) CRs and judge for yourself what challenges the PCs can really face. But since you had to do that anyway before 3e and CRs, I don't think this is a "hard" thing to do.

 

[Isyid]

I don't see any real problems in using normal d&d spellcasting classes for a low magic world, as long as you have a coherent idea of what magic can and cannot do in this world.
For exemple, in Lotr, no wizard ever seems to master "fly" or "teleport" type spells (not even "levitation", nor "feather fall", etc…). Gandalf has to walk or ride all the way, he cannot "passwall" through the Moria gates, he falls with the balrog, he only flies on the back of a (summonned?) giant eagle, etc… Everybody, even wizards, goes on foot. So the Dm can say: no spells relating to magical movement in a d&d-Lotr campaign. And : "summoning" spells only relate to specific, "named" creatures (just as the DMG optional rule), it simulates a "pact" with creatures that may or may not come to help if they happen to be in the neighborhood. Etc… If the players are given a clear list of what is allowed and disallowed for their spell selection, i don't think it's a problem.
Does that inbalance the game by weakening the spellcasting classes? i don't really think so: after all, even in a "normal" d&d campaign, using the standard rules, you can build a wizard without any "flashy" or destructive spells. It can be a personnal choice: but it can be just the way magicians are in a given camapaign. And remember, the villains will not have access to the spells that do not exist in this world.

Does this "spell restriction" imbalance the wizard classes relatively to other, non-spellcasting classes? I don't think either : because, if the wizard can't personnaly fly, the enemy fighter cannot have "flight" cast on him, etc… And in a low magic world, he probably does not carry many magic, ability enhancing, equipment or weapons. Of course, it changes, but it does not really reduces, the tactical options of a wizard in combat. It even gives back some great value to spells pertaining to misdirection (illusions), or mindcontrol (fear, domination, hold person)…

Another thing : in low magic campaings, magic is more often subtle, mysterious and terrifying than spectacular - but it does not have to be necessarily "low level". If the camapaign does not support "meteor swarm", the thought that, for example, "wail of the banshee" is available to some necromancers, is imo enough to make wizards frigthening for a party. Perhaps, with such "toned down" spell lists, wizards will be less efficient against numerous opponents; but after all it's the DM's job to provide situations in which the spells can be applied with a greater narrative effect.

 

[wolff96]

Two suggestions, both of which I've tried:

1) Eliminate all magic-using classes but the Paladin, the Ranger, and the Bard. Make sure you also modify or remove the monk... he just doesn't fit in a low-magic world. The paladin is a crusading holy man, the ranger becomes a mysterious and rare woodsman with strange powers (and the only person in the game that can Polymorph), and the Bard is the arcane magister of wisdom and odd lore.

It works pretty well.

2) Replace the magic-using classes with the Sovereign Stone magic classes. All magic takes time to cast -- often several rounds. While there is no formal limit on spells per day, casting fatigues the magician -- or does real damage in the case of Void magic.

It's a great system, but you need to learn the chapter on "Creating Magic spells" pretty well. Fortunately, it's a straightforward system -- and WAY better than the ELH on breaking down how to create spells.

 

[Holy Bovine]

I ran a LM world once, I made a house rule that stated that any PC spellcaster could have only 1 Evocation/Invocation spell per SPELL LEVEL. So a total of 9 when he maxes out all his spell levels. This creates a lower occurence of pyrotechnic displays of magical destruction, and also prevents all but the most serious comers from wanting to take a magic using class.

While that will get rid of 'flashy' magic it in no way limits the truly powerful spell-caster. In my campaign there is a Transmuter wizard without a single evocation spell (its his prohibited school) and he is death on wheels. Or rather he turns to other PCs into nigh unstoppable death machines. Polymorthed Paladins into Trolls, Bulls Strengthed, Cats Graced, Enduranced, Mage Armour the whole works. IMC its not much of a problem as it is pretty fast and loose with magic & poweful items.

One thing I have toyed with is making spellcasters have to take much longer to recover their spells. On the order of one day rest/spell level/spell. Of course you would have to give them something to make up for this - maybe eliminate Spell Failure? I haven't tried any of this mind you just kicking some ideas around.

 

[Sagan Darkside]

You got your name from Dungeon Master, the 80's dungeon game right? I love that game!

Wasn't Gothmog a balrog?

SD

 

[d20Dwarf]

Salutations,

Have you checked out the previews of FFG's Midnight?

It looks to be low magic- and it may contain a way for you to run the game the way you want.

SD

I was avoiding mentioning Midnight in this thread, but since someone else has I'll second what he said. Midnight has a classless, feat-based spellcasting system that integrates seamlessly with the spells found in the d20 system. It also presents advice for running low magic games, including how to adjust the EL of encounters based on monster abilities that may be more or less powerful in the face of less magic.

We also discuss how to modify treasure and such, although much of that discussion is also colored by Midnight's unique economics. We actually refer to the setting as "rare magic" rather than low magic, but I think you'll at least be able to mine the core book for ideas on how to present and run a low magic campaign.

 

[blargney]

1) Figure out the highest level of spell that you want the characters to be able to cast - EVER. (ie 3rd level spells.)

2) Determine the lowest level that the PCs could get those spells. (ie 5th level.)

3) Space them evenly in the 20 level progression such that the last one lands on 20. (ie 4, 8, 12, 16, 20.)

Those are the minimum levels that the PCs can increase their caster level. As a general rule, don't give them magic items unless they can cast the same spell effect.

To have a faster spell progression they have to meet certain requirements, do certain things, whatever you deem necessary. NPC pure-class spellcasters would be very powerful...

-blarg

 

[Olive]

Toning down magic is a lot harder than these "simple fixes" I've read about. AD&D was carefully, carefully, balanced. If you begin to tweak it, it will easily crumble. With no healing magic and no access to vast amounts of magic items, the PCs will be severely under powered. They need the +4 vorpal megabattleaxe of death at 15th level, or they won't be able to finish off that big baddie at the end of the road.

most low magic worlds are low magic monsters too. if you mostly fight humanoids with levels, then it's fine. just make sure they all have similar amounts of magic.

 

[Desdichado]

Gothmog was a character in the "Dungeon Master" CRPG. It was the first game to have real-time 3D battles. Very awesome game!

That may be true, but Gothmog was also the chief of the Balrogs in the Silmarillion before the "Dungeon Master" CRPG.