D&D 5E How do players know they are in the "wrong" location in a sandbox campaign?

[machineelf]

The "getting kicked the cr@p out of them" part is the one I want to avoid.

Why? Conflict is the main key to a great story, and getting the cr@p kicked out of you is part of the adventuring life.

In all seriousness, I've found that when you throw tough encounters at your players, they often will surprise you with their ability to seize victory from the jaws of defeat, and it will leave a lasting memory of an epic battle in their minds. And if one or two of them die, then so be it. I tend to run a gritty campaign, anyway. My goal is not to kill the PCs. But the NPCs' goal is to kill them. My goal as a DM is to merely place them on that razor's edge of danger, where they can succeed, but it won't be a cake walk. I hope they succeed, because that makes for a great story.

Now what I tend to do is run a sandbox game in terms of geography, but I still scale up or down encounters based on what I think would be best for the group (placing them on that razor's edge I mentioned above).

So with the Princes of Apocalypse adventure, I'd say run it as is and let the chips fall where they may (sounds like fun), or if you want to scale things down a little bit, it's easy enough to do by reducing the numbers of monsters, or lessening the HPs of some of the big, bad monsters.

 

[schnee]

I agree with a few others, in that a sandbox has to provide information and clues so players know when they're getting into risky territory.

Like, one I read on anther thread (or board) about players encountering a wandering knight with his retinue who just won the king's jousting tournament and the low-level fighter in the party immediately challenging him to a joust. You have to play up the precision of the group, the high quality of their armor, the healthiness and size of their horses, the steely-eyed intimidating stares of the whole crew.

I mean, when a professional USA football team walks into a bar, the whole energy of the place changes. These dudes are HUGE. They have a different walk, a different way of engaging with everyone else, because they know they can rip everyone else to pieces if they want. Those sorts of cues are broadcast.

If the GM doesn't do that, then players have no clues on how to react.

Sanboxes mean building a web of information that gives meaning to choices. So their risks are informed ones.

That doesn't mean making everything in a certain area 'level appropriate' but knowing 'this area is relatively well policed, this one is wild unknown and there are rumors of dragon sightings' goes a long way.

 

[Fanaelialae]

You've got to role play it in somehow with the information you have as a DM. Have an NPC give them some direction on what path to take next. If they don't take that direction then it's on them. If they don't retreat after immediately realizing and being given hints that they are overmatched at their current location, then that's on them too. If the campaign isn't clear on how to do this, you will simply have to come up with something on your own that steers them to that path of least resistance. It doesn't have to be elaborate and time consuming. Just use one of the major NPCs friendly to the party to role play the ideal order. Alternatively you could simply only reveal one course of action at a time through the campaign's progression.

You have to be careful doing this, otherwise you're not running an actual sandbox. You're running a weird railroad where they're allowed to leave the track but the penalty for doing so is death. For it to be a true sandbox, it needs to have real options.

Disclaimer - don't get me wrong. I've played in and run plenty of railroady games that were loads of fun. However, if you sell the players on the idea of a sandbox, but then punish them every time they try to color outside the lines, it's going to cause problems.

 

[redrick]

If you are running a sandbox adventure pre-seeded with mixed level challenges, players have to be prepared to run into problems that they are not ready for. This is something you should tell them in advance, as others have suggested.

Once the players know that their safety is not guaranteed, they will hopefully take precautions. This means being more thoughtful about exit strategy when entering a dungeon, taking more time to scout the kinds of challenges, researching the dungeon, etc. They should look for this information, and it's your job to make sure they have ways to find it. Also, when PCs start wandering into challenging areas, immediately start asking yourself about possible exit strategies, and get ready to drop hints/keep things open as a DM. Escape routes with doors that can be closed off, obstacles that can be knocked down behind fleeing PCs, ledges that can be jumped over with Feather Fall. (The Wizard took some escape spells, right?)

And yes, let the PCs get the crap kicked out of them. Let them need to run away. The point of a sandbox is the players needing to be more proactive. If that's not fun for you and your table, then just run it as a railroad or just tell the players what level each dungeon is as they enter it.

 

[CydKnight]

You have to be careful doing this, otherwise you're not running an actual sandbox. You're running a weird railroad where they're allowed to leave the track but the penalty for doing so is death. For it to be a true sandbox, it needs to have real options.

Disclaimer - don't get me wrong. I've played in and run plenty of railroady games that were loads of fun. However, if you sell the players on the idea of a sandbox, but then punish them every time they try to color outside the lines, it's going to cause problems.

I didn't say don't give options. If anything I am advocating the clarification of options through role play. It's still up to the players to decide where they want to go. The OP asks "How do players know they are in the wrong place?". I simply spelled out a way they can be more informed beforehand. In no way was I advocating anything close to punishment "every time they try to color outside the lines". Of course that will "cause problems" for players expecting a sandbox. My point is if you are playing a sandbox that will have greater consequences for venturing to certain areas at the wrong time, then you as a DM need to find a way to make sure the PCs are provided with enough information so they can make their own informed decision on the proper course of action with the amount of risk they are expecting.

 

[lumenbeing]

I DMed the entire campaign. I had at least one TPK due to the party making poor choices that had nothing to do with which dungeon they were in. Its a deadly campaign! Good thing about cults is that they like to do ritual sacrifices. Have the party captured instead of TPKd if they get in over their heads. Then give them a chance to escape with 1 hp each. If they survive let they players know thats the lasts gemme.


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[Elon Tusk]

If you are foing s sandbox, tell the players it's s sandbox and what that means - choices more danger, just because they pull a Comet from the Deck of Many Things doesn't mean your next opponents will be balanced for you to beat them. Narrative fate isn't as strong if things aren't linear. There is more onus on the players to look for clues. Sure there isn't anything to determine if the right ir left passage is less dangerous, but players could send a familiar or loose nvestigate another way. Some enounters will be much easier as well - they may be able to crush a warg-rifing goblin band and use the wargs themselves. Danger is intensified as much as choice, not a bad thing. Divination, investigation, dcouting, and questioning become invaluable.

 

[Oofta]

You mean other DMs don't just have a sign on the dungeon door?



But seriously, in addition to the other advice, give PCs a chance to run away. Describe higher level humanoids as professional veterans with well maintained armor and a dangerous air. Let them know they just caught a glimpse of Tim the Wizard, a well known and highly dangerous man that they are not ready to face. Have a bear show up across a meadow only to have a bullette leap out of the ground to devour it whole.

And of course there's always the "they get captured and now have to escape" trope. Maybe they're being transported to the jail and unexpected ally pops in or there's an attack from a different faction giving them an opportunity to escape.

There are all sorts of options. Including letting them get in over their heads.

 

[The Old Crow]

I suggest having a Run Away! rule in place, and making sure at the start of the campaign that everyone is aware of that option and how it works. I know from past player experience that if running away doesn't look like an option because the game mechanics don't support it, then it is not an option that gets chosen. If Certain Death appears to be the only outcome, I've always preferred to go down fighting.

 

[Tony Vargas]

There are no wrong places in a sandbox campaign. No matter where you go, there you are, in just the right place. If that happens to be fighting a demon lord at 1st level, you're just in the right place to die.

Hey, it was that or stay at home and grow turnips.