Taneel BrightBlade
First Post
I'm Planning to run a one session campaign for my birthday party and I'm unsure how tough of monsters to throw against 7-12 4th level pcs. Help Please!
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How do you alter CR for massive numbers of pcs?
- Thread starter Taneel BrightBlade
- Start date
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The included spreadsheet will do everything you need it to do...and more.
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Obscure
First Post
...Or you could just multiply the number of enemies by a factor of 2 to 3. The CR/EL system is based on a party of 4 PCs, so if you have double or triple that, doubling or tripling the number of baddies should work reasonably well. See how the first encounter goes and adjust from there. What you don't want to do is go with (significantly) tougher monsters instead of more monsters...that could have TPK written all over it.
dvvega
Explorer
The CR system based on 4 Players is based on powers of 2 (doubling).
When you double the party size, CR should be +2 of expected.
Thus a part of 6 would be CR +1
This table will help I hope
Party Size / CR Adjustment
4/0
6/+1
8/+2
12/+3
16/+4
I think I have that right. It has been a long time since I sat down and worked it out.
So in your case 7 players of 14th level would find a CR15/16 a challenge of 20% resource usage. While your party of 12 would find CR18 a challenge of 20% resource usage.
D
When you double the party size, CR should be +2 of expected.
Thus a part of 6 would be CR +1
This table will help I hope
Party Size / CR Adjustment
4/0
6/+1
8/+2
12/+3
16/+4
I think I have that right. It has been a long time since I sat down and worked it out.
So in your case 7 players of 14th level would find a CR15/16 a challenge of 20% resource usage. While your party of 12 would find CR18 a challenge of 20% resource usage.
D
argh! CR is not EL!
The biggest problem I can see is that you don't know how many PCs are in the party. Seven and twelve are very different numbers. Let's assume you have 9.
One of the issues with party size is what happens when one member is incapacitated, with a Hold Person, or killed, or whatever. If your party has two or three PCs, then you're always dangerously close to a TPK. This is not the case with three times as many; feel free to be a little deadly.
If you're trying to do this in one sitting, then go with three fights, tops. The action will run way too slowly with so many people, unless they're all expert players (and the blasted spellcasters actually choose their spells [ongoing peeve in my party]). So maybe four fights.
You're going to have to be flexible, to see how the session runs, but I would start with a relatively easy EL 7. [note that I did *not* say CR!] Four ogres seems like a nice start.
If they handle that well, then throw a double-whammy, like an EL 6 something-or-other, and then a mind flayer walks in a few rounds into combat (mind flayer not part of EL6 calculation). This way they get the chance to soften up the bad guys before our friend shows up. Or, they squander their precious few rounds of easiness, and the mind flayer teaches them a lesson.
The largest party I've had to deal with had 6 members. The way to keep it challenging is to have several targets for the PCs to aim at, but don't have so many that it bogs the action down. Have fun!
The biggest problem I can see is that you don't know how many PCs are in the party. Seven and twelve are very different numbers. Let's assume you have 9.
One of the issues with party size is what happens when one member is incapacitated, with a Hold Person, or killed, or whatever. If your party has two or three PCs, then you're always dangerously close to a TPK. This is not the case with three times as many; feel free to be a little deadly.
If you're trying to do this in one sitting, then go with three fights, tops. The action will run way too slowly with so many people, unless they're all expert players (and the blasted spellcasters actually choose their spells [ongoing peeve in my party]). So maybe four fights.
You're going to have to be flexible, to see how the session runs, but I would start with a relatively easy EL 7. [note that I did *not* say CR!] Four ogres seems like a nice start.
If they handle that well, then throw a double-whammy, like an EL 6 something-or-other, and then a mind flayer walks in a few rounds into combat (mind flayer not part of EL6 calculation). This way they get the chance to soften up the bad guys before our friend shows up. Or, they squander their precious few rounds of easiness, and the mind flayer teaches them a lesson.
The largest party I've had to deal with had 6 members. The way to keep it challenging is to have several targets for the PCs to aim at, but don't have so many that it bogs the action down. Have fun!
Thanee
First Post
CR doesn't change at all.
Appropriate EL is the average party level +2 for every time you can divide the number of PCs by 2 until you reach 4.
A reasonable way to make up a challenging encounter is to start with an appropriate encounter for a 4 PC party and then multiply the number of opponents by the number of PCs and divide that by 4.
For example, one CR 4 opponent (EL 4) is a suitable challenge for 4 PCs of 4th level (more on the easy side for them).
For 8 PCs of 4th level, you would need an EL of 6. Two CR 4 Opponents are a suitable challenge of that level.
For tougher fights adjust accordingly. EL 6 is a difficult fight for the 4 PCs, so is EL 8 for the 8 PCs. That would be either four CR 4 opponents or two CR 6 opponents, or four CR 2 and two CR 4 opponents.
Bye
Thanee
Appropriate EL is the average party level +2 for every time you can divide the number of PCs by 2 until you reach 4.
A reasonable way to make up a challenging encounter is to start with an appropriate encounter for a 4 PC party and then multiply the number of opponents by the number of PCs and divide that by 4.
For example, one CR 4 opponent (EL 4) is a suitable challenge for 4 PCs of 4th level (more on the easy side for them).
For 8 PCs of 4th level, you would need an EL of 6. Two CR 4 Opponents are a suitable challenge of that level.
For tougher fights adjust accordingly. EL 6 is a difficult fight for the 4 PCs, so is EL 8 for the 8 PCs. That would be either four CR 4 opponents or two CR 6 opponents, or four CR 2 and two CR 4 opponents.
Bye
Thanee
Ridley's Cohort
First Post
Our experience is that if the players are tactically savvy doubling the number of PCs increases the effective party level by +3, not +2. (Assuming you do not introduce weird abilities such as DR that the individual PCs are not equiped to handle.)
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