How do you deal with Hardness 20? (Spoilers for The Infernal Syndrome)

[MerricB]

By the Core book and Bestiary rules, animated objects are not immune to critical hits. This makes sense, as they turn from being an object, to being a construct which can be critically hit.

For some reason the Pathfinder OGC has additional animated object rules, which offers a redundancy statement of "immune to non-lethal damage" (which is already in construct rules) and "immune to critical hits", which is not in the construct description.

Actually, it's in the core book. Find the description of hardness there, and go down a paragraph or two. By core rules, animated objects (though not constructs in general) are immune to critical hits.

 

[MerricB]

2) Go to town, get a wall of stone scroll. Buff the fighter, he engages while drawing it to the limit of it's motion while doing so. The wizard drops a wall of stone *JUST* behind it.

Note that it's a *SLAM* attack--the cage runs down whoever it's going after. A properly placed wall of stone will keep it from making any substantial movement, thus substantially cutting it's damage potential. It can't break down the wall.

Now the fighter whacks at it with a reach weapon with impunity. So long as his max damage roll is 21 or better the cage dies eventually.

This is a wonderful idea! Note that it needs to be an enlarged fighter + reach weapon (otherwise its reach of 10' means they hit each other).

 

[N'raac]

but it's a fairly new party to Pathfinder/3E.

How new are they to the concept that not every threat can be beaten by standing and hitting it? It seems like the biggest risk is that the PC's rush in to attack, things go wrong, and they just keep hacking rather than backing off to come up with a better plan.

 

[RithTheAwakener]

Actually, it's in the core book. Find the description of hardness there, and go down a paragraph or two. By core rules, animated objects (though not constructs in general) are immune to critical hits.

Ah my mistake, Animate Object did not lead me there ><. Very odd distinction though; it seems like that technicality could be very easy to abuse. A wizard with a bag full of 100 small adamantine permanently animated bullets, he opens the bag at the start of a combat and wins.

 

[MerricB]

.Magic missile should do it. Force usually bypasses hardness.

It does? (Insubstantial, yes, but hardness?)

One of the interesting changes from 3.5E to Pathfinder is that the energy damage vs Hardness rules change.

D&D 3.5E: acid and sonic deal full damage (less hardness), electricity & fire deal half, cold deals quarter... to most objects.
PF: all energy types deal half, with the DM allowing exceptions.

 

[MerricB]

Ah my mistake, Animate Object did not lead me there ><. Very odd distinction though; it seems like that technicality could be very easy to abuse. A wizard with a bag full of 100 small adamantine permanently animated bullets, he opens the bag at the start of a combat and wins.

Hmm. Looking at the 3.5E SRD, it gets more interesting.

In 3.5E, constructs are immune to critical hits, and the SRD text is "Even animated objects, which are otherwise considered creatures, have these immunities because they are constructs."

In PF, constructs are no longer immune to critical hits, but the revision team changed the text to "Even animated objects, which are otherwise considered creatures, have these immunities."

Very odd.

 

[MerricB]

How new are they to the concept that not every threat can be beaten by standing and hitting it? It seems like the biggest risk is that the PC's rush in to attack, things go wrong, and they just keep hacking rather than backing off to come up with a better plan.

In this case, the best plan is to hit it HARDER!

(Mind you, 'things going wrong' probably involve grab attacks...)

 

[MerricB]

Improved Invisibility on any character capable of 20+ dmg per hit. Everyone else stays out of the room/chamber.

If you're not 'visible' the cage shouldn't be animated, only an object, presumably with the same hardness. Beat it to death without fear of counter attacks.

Ooh! Great solution! (Requires a bit of knowledge of the set-up, but greater invisibility does work against a lot of threats).

 

[MerricB]

If the Rogue can get in there and get sneak attack damage

Sadly, no sneak attack damage allowed by rules for animated objects.

 

[RithTheAwakener]

Aha! A simple Dispel Magic.

From paizo.com...
"Not all constructs are built with the Craft Construct feat. Spells like animate objects allow a caster to temporarily animate an existing object. These constructs are in many ways weaker than manufactured constructs, as they are susceptible to dispelling and antimagic.

A caster can use the animate objects spell to instantly create a temporary construct. A permanency spell cast upon an animated object makes the construct permanent; however, it can still be dispelled or suppressed by antimagic. Craft Construct creates permanent animated objects not susceptible to dispelling and antimagic."