How do you deal with instant death?

[BlackMoria]

Our group handles the risk of instant kill through a combination of magic items (items which boost saves and give spell resistance), speed (almost all my players take improved initative to help get the drop on the opposition.....initiative modifers in the range of +8 to +12 are not uncommon) and sound tactical planning.

 

[Narfellus]

I don't use resurrection in my Midnight campaign, so instant kills spells usually dump PC's into the negative and take them out of the fight, still with the potential of dying though. That said, they don't come up that often anyway. The one time it was a real problem was playing Return to the Tomb of Horrors and the PC's didn't have any decent wards going into the Necropolis.

 

[Darkness]

A 13th level cleric with a 24 wisdom has a Destruction Fort save of 24.

That's a pretty high Wisdom score he's got there.

Not impossible, of course.

A 13th-level NPC has around 35,000 gp in gear. A +4 Wis item (16,000 gp) would thus cost almost half of his total resources.

So assuming no unusual* circumstances apply, his Wis looks like this:

17 base + 3 levels + 4 item = 24

*Age modifiers, race modifiers, wish.

How common is it for NPCs to have a 17 base in their primary ability score in your game? Master villains only (or nearly so)?

Also, this character has spent almost half his gold on the +4 Wis item. Thus, he probably has weaknesses in other areas unless he has more equipment than the DMG suggests.

In any case, he's either very powerful or relatively min/maxed. Either way, it shouldn't come as a surprise he's effective at what he does.

 

[Surfal]

I don't see a 24 wis as too outrageous for a 13th level NPC cleric. If he has CWI he gets the +4 item for half price. And starting from 18 isn't out of the question for a "caster-first" cleric.

Back to the general point though. It sounds like a lot of people offer some alternative to get out of instant death, be it another mechanism (hero or fate points), a revised instant death mechanic, or simple restraint on the part of the DM.

In my current campaign I'm running insta-kill as written, but I'm surely going to revise it the next time around. I just don't like PCs being forced to buy specific, single-purpose items to survive.

 

[Voadam]

I avoid using them often. Instead of 8 bodaks with death gazes in one module encounter, for instance, I swapped in 8 plague wraiths from a Freeport web enhancement advanced until they were the same CR. I just don't like them as a DM.

I was considering turning the gazes to death blast d6 based gaze attacks but couldn't figure out the appropriate amount to substitute it for. Turning death effects into just dropping to 0 hp and dying is attractive though.

 

[LadyDM]

I avoid using them often. I just don't like them as a DM.

I'm w/ Voadam, I try to challenge the players and pit them against thing they need to THINK about to get past, not just kill, kill, kill...which is sometimes necessary, but if they die in the process, so be it, create a new character.

 

[Hjorimir]

What happens if you combine the following two mindsets?

1) "Divinations are just too powerful and are ruining the game. The PCs always know what's going on and it's very difficult to plan a surprise..."

2) "Hitting the PCs unexpectantly can ruin the game."


I think the two cancel each other out nicely. My position (as both a DM and player) is that the PCs have access to divination spells for a reason. They more often than not know at least something of their opponents. They should go through the motions of doing a little legwork (read: investigation) before attempting to face their foes and the areas of the world they inhabit.

If the wizard decides to load up on fireballs and ignores the power of clairvoyance he has only himself to blame about not knowing what's beyond the big doors. There are so many divination spells and abilities at the disposal of the PCs why not balance your games with those in mind? If a PC in my game takes the time and energy to cast such spells they will almost always be rewarded (as long as they are not asking the wrong questions).

The wizards in my games (I run two side-by-side campaigns in the same world) load up on divination spells. I cannot tell you how much grief spells like Locate Object or Locate Creature has caused my NPCs. In fact a major design of a particular nasty necromancer was foiled by the use of these spells.

 

[Hellefire]

There are things that kill instantly. Players either know that or learn that. I dont throw it at them all the time, unless they go somewhere that it's a possibility. In that case, ya pays ya nickle, ya rolls ya dice, ya takes ya chances. In a world where there are spells to bring you back to life, sucking up a death now and then to learn something isn't too bad.

Aaron Blair
Foren Star

 

[Darkness]

I don't see a 24 wis as too outrageous for a 13th level NPC cleric.

As you can see, he requires at least a 17 base Wis. That's not common except in high-power campaigns.

 

[maddman75]

This is one of the main reasons I don't like D&D at high levels. Yeah, the cleric is okay. What about hitting the wizard with a DC 26Fort save? Or doing the same to the fighter with a Dominate? And I should be doing that - only problem isn't that its hard for the PCs to overcome, its virtually impossible. Combine that with the near uselessness of the 0 to -9 safety net when you are dealing out 30-50 points at a whack, and you start mowing through characters. Your choices are to metagame your villains and have them not do what makes sense, kill characters off by the handful, destroying countless building plots and such, or allow cheap and easy Resurrection, which for me kills verisimilitude.

Don't like it much at all.