• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

"How do you get to Carnegie Hall? Do a dungoen crawl."

Rechan

Adventurer
There's a mechanical assumption about skill/level based games that, when I look at it at face value, really amuses me.

Let's just for simplicity sake, take 3e. This is not picking on 3e, but it's an easy example for me to use and most of us are familiar with it.

In 3e, when you gain XP, you level up. You get more skill points, where you can place these points where you want, and thus you get better at those skills.

But, the fastest way to get XP is to kill monsters. Sure, there exists RP awards, and other avenues of XP. But the surest, quickest way to get XP is to best an opponent in an adversarial circumstance.

So if you for instance wanted to increase your Perform (Musical Instrument) skill, you merely place one point in Perform, and then... continue slaying monsters. You could spend every day in the dungeon, every level putting points into Perform (Musical Instrument). You never have to play that instrument beyond that novice level single skill point, and eventually you'll be better than most people in the world if you just keep maxing it every level.

So you gain skill in something by doing something else that's COMPLETELY UNRELATED to the thing you're getting better at.

To give a little less far-fetched example, look at Wizard Schools. The best way to gain spells is not going to a Wizard school and studying for years, researching spells, creating spells, etc. The best way is to kill monsters.

A wizard could get his Wizardly GED, leave school, and go kill monsters with magic missile. Every level he gets new spells. NEW spells, that he didn't study, wasn't casting, in completely DIFFERENT schools than he was using (For instance, Magic Missile x100 can get you a new level, where you take Invisibility).

Meanwhile, his old classmates are still in Wizardschool. They spend years casting the same spells, and yet because they're not slaying monsters and racking up tons of XP, they don't level up as fast. Soon they see the GED wizard throwing around high level spells while they have yet to master third level spells!

Sure, the assumption is "He was working on it between combats!" But, he never uses any of it. He's mastered that spell by the time he casts it for the first time in a fight. Not only that, but if the rules are How the World Works... then he really doesn't have to study in between classes. All he as to do is cast that same Magic Missile at every monster he comes across, and he just Learns how to cast fireball.

Again, this could be done with any system, as even those without levels, you get points for XP that you spend on new things. But once more, you could spend those points on thing you're not particularly doing. So skill and expertise are being granted without needing to practice.

I just find this very amusing.
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

Rechan

Adventurer
Another funny thing is rate of advancement, and rate of fortune building.

Again using 3e, just to illustrate.

In 3e, a typical combat round lasts 6 seconds. The Average combat lasts, let's say, 3 rounds. So a typical fight lasts 18 seconds.

It takes 13 encounters (give or take) to gain a level.

The amount of seconds in 13 encounters is 18 x 13, or 234 seconds. That's 3.9 minutes.

3.9 minutes x 20 levels = 78 minutes.

Now of course, you're sprinkling 8 hours of rest in there heartily. And the time it takes to get from one dungeon to the next, sell loot, etc. But even so, 78 minutes of work = the most Epic of Men, best at what they do.

Also consider that with each level, your wealth grows exponentially. So that from day 1, to level 20, you spend 78 minutes of ACTUAL WORK to become one of the richest SOBs in the world.
 

Crothian

First Post
"Practice? We're talking about practice? Not a game...practice!"

The quote went something like that. In any game I guess you could spend a session ever now and then with the players practicing their skills, and trying out new spells that they don't have access to yet. Heck, it might even be fun. But there is a reason practice rules were eventually dropped from the game. People didn't like them and they didn't use them.

This is a game, it is not a realistic portrayal of anything. THere are plenty of things in the game that are silly when you break them apart and look at them for realism. But if this is really a problem for you then as DM change it and fix it. But I don't think it is a problem for anyone.
 

Mark

CreativeMountainGames.com
You never have to play that instrument beyond that novice level single skill point, and eventually you'll be better than most people in the world if you just keep maxing it every level.


The placing of skill points in a skill presumes the practicing at that skill even if you do not express that at the game table.
 

Theo R Cwithin

I cast "Baconstorm!"
Yeah, this bugs me a bit, especially for the profession-related ones. In a campaign where the PCs go from 1st level 16 yr-old punks to 20th level 18 yr-old godlings.... yeah it's odd. Oh well. ;)

I also like the quantum nature of improvement associated with things like class features & feats. Kind of like Neo in the Matrix: "I know kung-fu!"

Actually, for some skills, I sometimes use a CoCesque improvement, so spectacular successes allow for improvement independently of leveling-- and beyond the normal max for things related to occupation. Gives the commoners a reasonable shot at besting a PC at such fantastickal sports such like basket-weaving, roof-thatching or dung-shovelling.

Hans the Baker presents:

Life Skillz
-or-
"How I learned to bake the best strawberry tortes in the realm without slaying a single dragon"

.
 

Nifft

Penguin Herder
Yeah, this bugs me a bit, especially for the profession-related ones. In a campaign where the PCs go from 1st level 16 yr-old punks to 20th level 18 yr-old godlings.... yeah it's odd. Oh well. ;)
That's not what your high school was like?

Cheers, -- N​
 

Dice4Hire

First Post
Another funny thing is rate of advancement, and rate of fortune building.

It takes 13 encounters (give or take) to gain a level.

The amount of seconds in 13 encounters is 18 x 13, or 234 seconds. That's 3.9 minutes.

3.9 minutes x 20 levels = 78 minutes.
.

I have never had an encounter take a single round.......
 

Rechan

Adventurer
The placing of skill points in a skill presumes the practicing at that skill even if you do not express that at the game table.
Well, that sounds to me more like an assumption after the fact. An explanation to explain a mechanic, not the other way around, just so we can avoid this very conversation.

Sort of like how everyone ASSUMES that in an RPG, people use the bathroom. But even when you explore dungeons, you never find latrines or bedrooms. Even in published modules. :p

Like I said. This isn't a rant. I just find it amusing that these situations rise up.

Part of this rises from the fact that almost all systems, conflict generates the most XP. So, the best way to level up is conflict. And levelling up effects everything, or at least access to things you're not actively doing.
 


Crothian

First Post
Sort of like how everyone ASSUMES that in an RPG, people use the bathroom. But even when you explore dungeons, you never find latrines or bedrooms. Even in published modules. :p

I've placed bathrooms and chamber pots in my adventures. I've seen published ones with them too. It might not always happen, but it does.

The thing is adding this detail doesn't help the game. It is pointless extra details.
 

Remove ads

Top