How do you handle campaign cheaters?

[Harmon]

There is a good point- I would feel very uncomfortable asking my Player to leave over something such as this (cheating). I have gamed with my present group for 15 yrs and would rather not see any of them go because of cheating.

I only game with friends- one is my wife, and the other three are close friends.

Its a matter of trust, it sounds like you can't trust him with something such as maintaining a level of trust and that does not make for a good friendship (he's not a good friend is what I mean), so don't let that hamper your mind set.

Should you be reading this Mister Cheater, you should be ashamed, BlackSilver has made a considerable effort to entertain you and your friends and you pull some crap like this. I think I would ask you to make up fifty villians for me to use, put down fresh new gear and copy directly from the MM, not from the SRD to disk. You could do some of the work for me.

 

[Faraer]

I would never kick a friend out of my game for something like that. You would possibly ruin a friendship over a GAME.

It's not over a game, it's over a personal betrayal that happened to occur via a game. Probably a minor personal betrayal, but who needs 'friends' like that? But of course the DM should talk to the player first.

 

[Chimera]

Three years ago I kicked an old friend out of my group (the fourth campaign I'd played or GM'd with him in it) because he was cheating. Blatantly so. Everyone knew it, everyone saw it. We were not friends after that. (But then, our friendship had been on the ropes before that happened.)

Everyone else said "Why??? It's just a game!"

Yup. It's just a game.

But if I can't trust you to play a stupid game without cheating so freaking blatantly in front of me....I can't trust you. Period.

It's simple ethics, people. I don't hang around with people I can't trust.

Occasional die roll fudging? Doesn't bother me in the slightest. The occasional lie? Forgivable.

But when every statement is a lie, when every die roll is a "hit", you have gone beyond the pale and thrown away your credibility and reputation. And I don't want to know you anymore.

Granted, it took a lot to get me to boot the guy. I very probably wouldn't do so on the first offense, though I'd make it abundantly clear that NO REPEAT WOULD BE TOLERATED and let him know that he's making himself look bad.

In the OP's case, given the how much the module costs, I would almost second the idea of asking the jerk to reimburse part of it, since he ruined it.

 

[Captain Howdy]

You are correct, it is a game. But its not just a computer game or Monopoly. It’s a Role-Playing Game where the cheating impacts on more than him. It ruins the game when a player cheats. It hurts the mood and causes bad feeling. And why should the DM have to change anything? The player should have known better than to cheat. He knew what he was doing, and it was intentional. Its not like he already had the module and had run it or read it prior to it coming up in the campaign.

I guess I just don't see why that is such a big deal. Are the players having fun? It seemed from the original post that most or all of the players were in on it. If that's what they want to do, why should the DM care? If I mistook the original post, and it is just one player ruining the game for the whole group, then get rid of him. But if all the players are having fun then the DM shouldn't get all pissy because the adventure was "spoiled". When it comes right down to it, the DM should just ask the group if they want to kick out the player in question.
If the so-called cheating isn't "ruining the mood or causing bad feeling", then it doesn't matter.
Like I said before, no matter how big of a deal people make out of it, it is just a game, and the point of a game is for everyone to have fun. And contrary to what some people have said, behavior in D&D is NOT reflective of behavior overall. I have played with people in the past who "cheat" all the time, and while I wouldn't trust them to give me an honest attack roll, they are perfectly honorable people when it comes to everything else. I have also seen cases of the opposite...
Basically, stop taking things so seriously or all you'll end up with is a group of bitter players, and an ulcer.

 

[WizarDru]

I guess I just don't see why that is such a big deal. Are the players having fun? It seemed from the original post that most or all of the players were in on it. If that's what they want to do, why should the DM care? If I mistook the original post, and it is just one player ruining the game for the whole group, then get rid of him.

Here's the thing, though....the other players may not immediately realize the damage done. The other players didn't encourage it, but most likely considered it 'fair play' if the DM didn't make an issue of it. Six sessions in, when no one can figure out why the game has no soul, it'll be too late to say "Told you so". The cheater has poisoned the well.

That, and I just don't understand the mindset. It's like cheating at solitaire, or reading a script of a movie you haven't seen but intend to. Why would you bother?

 

[Nightchilde-2]

Y'know, if this had been, say, Whispers of the Vampire's Blade or some Dungeon Crawl Classics, I'd just kinda shrug and say "well, you're missing out on the fun of not knowing." Then I'd switch things around a bit and make it different than what they knew.

But, the WLD is a hundred-freakin'-dollars. I'd be sorely tempted to boot the fool. They're ruining not only their own fun, your fun and the fun of the other players but essentially made you more or less waste a hundred bucks.

Inconceivable.

 

[Mercule]

Yeah, it's about a game... but it's about more, too. That's a pretty good sum of cash to throw at something ($100?, I don't own it, myself). If the player ran across the information accidentally, that's one thing, but it sounds like this guy intensionally went after the information with the intent to use it.

If that's the case, then he intensionally sabotaged a $100 purchase, not to mention the time invested. A module isn't a video game or anything of the sort. It's more like a model kit. The DM invests some cash to get the kit, then they spend time reading it and putting things together for their players. This player invalidated that cash and time investment (which is significant) -- sure, it might be salvagible, but that'll take more outflow of cash and/or time.

Hmm... let's put this completely into the video game metaphor. What the player did is not like cheating at an XBox game against the DM. Instead, imagine if the the DM had bought a $100 kit to build an XBox and had spent 2 weeks or more putting it together. When the DM offered to share it, this player effectively walked over to the XBox and cracked it open, rewiring it in such a way that it is impossible for the DM to get a result even close to what he'd intended -- or, more appropriately, so that it won't work at all.

The DM should be every bit as enraged about this "cheating" as if the XBox scenario had happened.

And, Mr. Player, if you're reading this, you should be handling this with the same repentance that I'd hope you'd have in that case. You didn't just take some enjoyment out of that session or two, you screwed your "friend" out of $100 and many hours of his life. The very minimum "break-even" is to reimburse the DM for the cost of the module. I'd also recommend starting to show some respect for your friend's effort in keeping you entertained.

To BlackSilver: Do not go into "killer DM" mode and smack down your player's character in any way. The DM can always "win" that game, so it doesn't prove anything. It just changes the nature of the game, probably to one you don't want.

 

[drakhe]

Turn the table, but kicking out remains key

If I find out one of my players is cheating, at first I'll not realy bother untill the cheat becomes obvious, ir is disruptive. Generaly I'll then "cheat back" by sidestepping the cheat or changing the plot/setting/encounter to ignore the cheat. Offcourse if the cheating continues into the extreme or I have too much work sidestepping the cheat, the kicking of behinds direction exit is mandatory.

I guess I don't realy mind cheating unless it severly disrupts the game or kills the fun for some or all of the participants. It all comes down to trust and having fun. If a player uses monster info learned in another game or reads up on that NPC I mentioned, I don't mind. In the case presented (WLD ...) the cheating is extremely disruptive and as mentioned before breaks the trust. If he had bought the WLD I might at some point forgive the guy and make it a kind of a duel, but anybody that runs to his FLGS to browse publications to collect foreknowledge isn't worth having as a player.

pm: there's only one thing that could be worse: when the group turns against the DM for kicking this kind of players out. It would be all too easy to "not cheat" but play based on the information of a cheater. Should I ever have the misfortune of DM'ing for such a group, play would be suspended indefinatly very quickly (but so far, none of my groups have benn "clean")

 

[BSF]

I guess I just don't see why that is such a big deal. Are the players having fun? It seemed from the original post that most or all of the players were in on it. If that's what they want to do, why should the DM care? If I mistook the original post, and it is just one player ruining the game for the whole group, then get rid of him. But if all the players are having fun then the DM shouldn't get all pissy because the adventure was "spoiled". When it comes right down to it, the DM should just ask the group if they want to kick out the player in question.
If the so-called cheating isn't "ruining the mood or causing bad feeling", then it doesn't matter.
Like I said before, no matter how big of a deal people make out of it, it is just a game, and the point of a game is for everyone to have fun. And contrary to what some people have said, behavior in D&D is NOT reflective of behavior overall. I have played with people in the past who "cheat" all the time, and while I wouldn't trust them to give me an honest attack roll, they are perfectly honorable people when it comes to everything else. I have also seen cases of the opposite...
Basically, stop taking things so seriously or all you'll end up with is a group of bitter players, and an ulcer.

Well, the DM is one of the people that needs to have fun. If I stop having fun running a game, I'm done. It's over. Why should I invest any more of my time into something that I am not having fun doing? I am not the DM so I can cater to the other player's desires. I am not a server side application. I am another guy sitting at the table trying to have fun. It just happens that I have as much fun running stories as I do playing as the characters in those stories. So I play in one game and run another game.

WLD is an investment. This is not a spontaneous purchase unless you have significant income. Anybody willing to invest that much money into the dungeon is likely basing an entire campaign off of it. Cheating at it ruins the mystery. It ruins the surprises, it ruins the excitement of discovery, it ruins the tension. Is it a big deal?

Well obviously it is not a big deal to the players, but it is a big deal to the DM. If it weren't he wouldn't be posting. So the DM shouldn't "get all pissy" because he just blew $100 and has watched the life be sucked out of the dungeon? He has watched all the additional stories he may have dropped in become less relevant. The quest to find that one special magic item in the dungeon loses impact because the players already know where it is, or where it is supposed to be. OK, sure, the DM shouldn't make a big deal out of it.

But nor should the players make a big deal when the DM says "You know, I am not going to run this game for you. I'll be happy to play and I'll just save this dungeon/campaign for a different group at a different time. So who is DMing next?" After all, the DM is just a player with a different title and different responsibilities. The fun of the DM is just as important as any other player and this one player has certainly ruined the fun for the DM. The other players are tacitly approving of this arrangement by participating. So, the group of players has a different set of expectations. Perhaps it is best to part ways? Perhaps it is best to let somebody else run a game and just participate as a player. There is a lot less work that way, that's for sure.

This player cheating has ruined the mood for at least one other player at the table. That player is the DM.

 

[Oghma]

I've been in several campaigns with cheaters over the years, and it's been dealt with in different ways.

I had a player repeatedly fudge die rolls in a pivotal battle. The whole group noticed it, because he'd roll them in a box and not show them to any one, except once in a while when he actually rolled well. As the DM, I retired that character (who the player really liked), and made him make a new one that came in 2 levels lower than the rest of the party. I explained to him that he had messed with the "reality" of the world, and his former character was now "not real".

We also had a player in one of my high school groups who rolled amazing characters up every time, and played them in his own campaigns with other players. Then he'd bring them into the group's "shared" campaign and use them. The group killed his character in-character. He got the point.

I always think the best way to show someone the error of their ways is to take away the motive they used to do it. Why did he do it?

To have a kick ass PC? Take away the PC in a creative way.

Did he do it to appear to excel in the group's eyes, to gain prestige? Take away that prestige, humiliate him or his character.

Is he trying to "win"? Then he has to lose, in whatever way is most galling to him.

Is he a know-it-all? Take away what he studied so hard to do. Any thing he can use to his advantage is suddenly exactly to his disadvantage. When he catches on, change things back, so he is stymied again.

I know this sounds a bit harsh, almost manipulative. Consequences are important. If there are no consequences to bad actions, then those bad actions will repeat.

If he did it to fix something in him that is broken, an emotional/self esteem issue, then you have to tread more carefully. That requires a one-on-one with the player and some careful listening and talking.

You mentioned that the group seems to know what's going on. It may be that they will take the matter into their own hands. As a player, I get irritated when someone messes with my reality, even when my character benefits. It's not "real", then. It's cheating. I would rather die honestly than win by cheating.

People forget, sometimes, that the game isn't about winning. It's about the story. Spectacular failures in a campaign introduce another kind of obstacle to overcome, another way to rise to the occasion. Any fantasy story you ever read has failure in it. Botching a roll is just part of the story. The roll-fakers forget this, sometimes.

Well, good luck. This is a hard one.