I'm thinking that liches were Wizards (or they could be Clerics or Druids), they could bring anything to bare that any other spellcaster could. Since the books were so thick with spells, this meant a lot of potential combinations, which meant a lot of obvious options.
How do you make Liches interesting?
Colmarr
First Post
Another option is to abandon the idea of codifying what the lich can and cannot do and 'wing it'.
The Chatty DM once blogged about a giant he created that could create multiple effects based on the old page 42 damage expressions (I'm not sure what the appropriate page and book is now or even whether there is one now that monster math has been so radically increased).
In other words, let the lich do whatever seems appropriate at the time and improvise a damage expression using that table.
Telekinesis pushing a PC across the room into a table? Medium range, push 4 and medium damage expression.
Lightning bolt? medium range, one or two targets within an area bust 2, medium damage expression (lightning).
Stripping the soul from a single target? Short range, High damage expression and target loses a healing surge.
Calling an infusion of shadow magic into the area? Close burst 5, targets slowed and weakened, low damage expression, sustain minor.
The Chatty DM once blogged about a giant he created that could create multiple effects based on the old page 42 damage expressions (I'm not sure what the appropriate page and book is now or even whether there is one now that monster math has been so radically increased).
In other words, let the lich do whatever seems appropriate at the time and improvise a damage expression using that table.
Telekinesis pushing a PC across the room into a table? Medium range, push 4 and medium damage expression.
Lightning bolt? medium range, one or two targets within an area bust 2, medium damage expression (lightning).
Stripping the soul from a single target? Short range, High damage expression and target loses a healing surge.
Calling an infusion of shadow magic into the area? Close burst 5, targets slowed and weakened, low damage expression, sustain minor.
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
Yeah, you could do that. However, the next optimization of that is to now codify a number of these, and you are back to powers (though you can most certainly refluff them constantly). This has been my approach with spell casters several times. You can create say 4 powers with various mechanics and just fluff them to be "a blast of fire" and "a zone of icy cold" etc. Make one power controlerish, one straight artillery, one leadery, and one defensive/reactionary. So maybe round one the lich fires off a 'fireball' (his artillery power with the damage type being fire) and then later uses the same power as "icy blast" (same power but with the damage being cold).
You could actually make the non-damage effects several free action power riders. So you could make the artillery power slow one time, push the next time, etc. Might come off as being a bit gimmicky or generic, but if you get the details right you could get the concept of a hugely knowledgeable and dangerous wizard with a fairly limited actual stat block.
Most of the rest can be other elements besides the monster itself. My practice is first to think up a concept, and then 'think like the monster'. What would I do if the lich was my PC? What kind of tricks would he come up with?
You could actually make the non-damage effects several free action power riders. So you could make the artillery power slow one time, push the next time, etc. Might come off as being a bit gimmicky or generic, but if you get the details right you could get the concept of a hugely knowledgeable and dangerous wizard with a fairly limited actual stat block.
Most of the rest can be other elements besides the monster itself. My practice is first to think up a concept, and then 'think like the monster'. What would I do if the lich was my PC? What kind of tricks would he come up with?
Colmarr
First Post
If flexibility is what PlaneSailing is looking for, I think non-codification is the only real answer.
In other words, you don't come up with the examples I mentioned before play, you come up with them on the fly just as the Lich's initiative comes up. All that the stat block says is something like
"Page 42 attack
Consult page 42 and ad lib."
The problem with making things up on the fly is it feels arbitrary and unfair to the players, or simply work plain poorly for not being coherently thought out beforehand. Most creatures have a specific set of powers because they are synergistic. For example Dragons have a powerful MBA, which deals a significant amount of damage with their bite but isn't usually their first choice of standard action on their turn. The bite becomes the dragons out of turn opportunity attack for the most part, while their double attack is their go to power. With a creature like a Lich, I would be seriously thinking towards powers that can manipulate PCs own magic and turn it against them. For example, being able to turn an enemies zone or conjuration into an unfriendly zone/conjuration. This has the advantage of making the monster more adaptable to circumstances as well.
A well designed solo shouldn't need to have infinite powers to show a high degree of interesting stuff. It should have enough for the 3-4 rounds that it will last in combat (ideally) to be more than interesting - without turning into a huge long grind like pre-MM solos. As such you should only need to make around 4 maybe 5 standard action powers to accomplish a great deal of variety. I would aim for 4 standards, 2 minors, 2 triggered and a couple of traits. That's a big and very complicated monster right there - but it will certainly have the options to give the PCs the feeling of being a very challenging (and adept) spell caster.
Even those abilities can work very well with one another, such as a vulnerability granting power that interacts with an energy type the Lich can do (at its very simplest), then that is even better again. Such things should be thought of ahead of time and simply making them up on the spot is not a good solution. Especially because - in my case anyway - my initial solo designs are always far more over the top than need be. I design by making something ridiculous and scaling it down. I then like to "playtest" my solo against the actual players that will face it - just to fine tune it and see if it actually works correctly. 9/10 this method has produced fun, challenging and generally interesting solos. If there is a monster in 4E that deserves to have such effort put into it, the solo is certainly it.
A well designed solo shouldn't need to have infinite powers to show a high degree of interesting stuff. It should have enough for the 3-4 rounds that it will last in combat (ideally) to be more than interesting - without turning into a huge long grind like pre-MM solos. As such you should only need to make around 4 maybe 5 standard action powers to accomplish a great deal of variety. I would aim for 4 standards, 2 minors, 2 triggered and a couple of traits. That's a big and very complicated monster right there - but it will certainly have the options to give the PCs the feeling of being a very challenging (and adept) spell caster.
Even those abilities can work very well with one another, such as a vulnerability granting power that interacts with an energy type the Lich can do (at its very simplest), then that is even better again. Such things should be thought of ahead of time and simply making them up on the spot is not a good solution. Especially because - in my case anyway - my initial solo designs are always far more over the top than need be. I design by making something ridiculous and scaling it down. I then like to "playtest" my solo against the actual players that will face it - just to fine tune it and see if it actually works correctly. 9/10 this method has produced fun, challenging and generally interesting solos. If there is a monster in 4E that deserves to have such effort put into it, the solo is certainly it.
Quickleaf
Legend
It was a draco-lich, but there are enough pillagable ideas to make it worth mentioning...
At level 3 the PCs botched a quest to stop a summoning ritual - a dragon spirit was awakened and they witnessed the birth of a dracolich! Squeals of abject horror and pleas of "we're only third level!"
Throughout campaign they hear stories of destruction in the dracolich's wake. They think it's a level 19 or 20 monster and are terrified of it, plus are kicking themselves that they could have prevented this.
Later they learn the dracolich's name, its history when alive, why it was summoned and what made it cooperate with th PC's nemesis. They also learn it has a unique connection to "The Shadow" (negative energy plane), and serves as a sort of entropic planar gate.
At the apex of the heroic tier the PCs finally face the dracolich, having gained control of it's phylactery during a prior adventure. Until this point they didn't know what the phylactery did, but when within 100' of the dracolich the phylactery unlocked revealing a draconic sigil puzzle with the power to disable a certain power of the dracolich each turn depending on which sigil combo was used. Unfortunately, 100' was also the range of the dracolich's entropic aura.
I used a heavily modified fettered dracolich (level 12) for the fight with an aura pulling creatures into it like a vortex and dealing increasing amounts of damage the closer a living creature got.
So not a lich, but still in the lich family right?
At level 3 the PCs botched a quest to stop a summoning ritual - a dragon spirit was awakened and they witnessed the birth of a dracolich! Squeals of abject horror and pleas of "we're only third level!"
Throughout campaign they hear stories of destruction in the dracolich's wake. They think it's a level 19 or 20 monster and are terrified of it, plus are kicking themselves that they could have prevented this.
Later they learn the dracolich's name, its history when alive, why it was summoned and what made it cooperate with th PC's nemesis. They also learn it has a unique connection to "The Shadow" (negative energy plane), and serves as a sort of entropic planar gate.
At the apex of the heroic tier the PCs finally face the dracolich, having gained control of it's phylactery during a prior adventure. Until this point they didn't know what the phylactery did, but when within 100' of the dracolich the phylactery unlocked revealing a draconic sigil puzzle with the power to disable a certain power of the dracolich each turn depending on which sigil combo was used. Unfortunately, 100' was also the range of the dracolich's entropic aura.
I used a heavily modified fettered dracolich (level 12) for the fight with an aura pulling creatures into it like a vortex and dealing increasing amounts of damage the closer a living creature got.
So not a lich, but still in the lich family right?
TerraDave
5ever, or until 2024
There are so many wizard powers floating around, (along with all the other powers) they probably wont notice...but you can get PCs attention with PC powers. Back in the day, fireball was always good (I still remember Strahd fireballing the party many, many years ago, good times).
Now, imagine starting with something as simple as sleep or stinking cloud.
Dice4Hire
First Post
It is a hard question in 4E, as the Lich should have a lot more variety. I would give htem a rechargeable 'daily' that mimics high level wizard spells.
First they get wall of fire, for example, and when it recharges, they get stinking cloud, and then Ice storm, and so on.
The damage and effects should be similar, jsut different presentation or maybe dmage types.
First they get wall of fire, for example, and when it recharges, they get stinking cloud, and then Ice storm, and so on.
The damage and effects should be similar, jsut different presentation or maybe dmage types.
vagabundo
Adventurer
I agree. I'd use the lich "monster" stats as a template and work from there.
I do really wish that the Monster Builder would allow me to make NPCs by dropping in PC powers, use monster templates and monster themes. It really could be a fantastic app for making very detailed NPCs. But ho hum...
I do really wish that the Monster Builder would allow me to make NPCs by dropping in PC powers, use monster templates and monster themes. It really could be a fantastic app for making very detailed NPCs. But ho hum...
Zaran
Adventurer
What I would do is this:
Make it's main Movement a Teleport. If it gets dazed, it teleports to a balcony or some other hard to reach place.
Give it an Omni-Attack Power. Every Round you can choose if it's a Close or Area and Blast or Burst . It does the same damage but you can choose the condition to apply to Hits. Then when you use it, you describe the effect the Lich does.
Give it an Immediate Reaction At -Will to teleport away if it gets hit.
Give it a Minor action to raise Undead Minions every turn.
A Free Action it will spout Poetry every round. This is probalby the worst attack you can do to any PC and they will remember it.
Make it's main Movement a Teleport. If it gets dazed, it teleports to a balcony or some other hard to reach place.
Give it an Omni-Attack Power. Every Round you can choose if it's a Close or Area and Blast or Burst . It does the same damage but you can choose the condition to apply to Hits. Then when you use it, you describe the effect the Lich does.
Give it an Immediate Reaction At -Will to teleport away if it gets hit.
Give it a Minor action to raise Undead Minions every turn.
A Free Action it will spout Poetry every round. This is probalby the worst attack you can do to any PC and they will remember it.
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