D&D 5E How do you measure, and enforce, alignment?

[Imaro]

To me, alignment is less about words, and more about actions. Words is what charisma is for. For example, in GOT, I would consider The Hound as "good", but with a horribly low charisma score. Not just the physical scarring, but his insulting and crude behavior. I do not ascribe to the belief that a "good" character is also polite and tactful. Again, actions vs. words....alignment vs. charisma.

I get your larger point but I think the Hound is a bad example... at least if you're trying to show a good character.

 

[Sacrosanct]

So what you're saying is that you don't bother with it as long as the player chooses Good/Neutral....

And what happens if the player chooses Good/Neutral & then plays as a selfish jerk? You don't have to be evil to be an ass you know.

Playing the odds. IME, players who play good/neutral PCs almost never play their PCs to be selfish jerks. Conversely, almost always players who choose to play evil PCs do so as an excuse for them to be selfish jerks.

Didn't he kill a defenceless boy in the first season? How is that "good"? Or does he get a pass because he was "just following Joffrey's orders"?

I don't remember that exact scene, but I think he wasn't exactly happy to do so, and may have done so only because to refuse would make things even worse. Also, I'm factoring in his entire progression to where he is now.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

I do use alignment, but in most cases I see it as just another data point about a PC much like a background blurb (or 5E's Bonds, Ideals, and Flaws, which I never got in the habit of using). I don't categorically rule out the possibility of supernatural effects which reward "those whose hearts are pure" or whatever, because that's kind of a big deal in certain myths and legends and it would be a shame to lose it. But I haven't done it in a while.

 

[DemonSlayer]

After listening to Matt Colville explain his view on Alignment I was thinking how I’ve been describing alignment to myself when thinking about character motivations and how I view players at the table (I only have a couple of PbP games I’m GM-ing, so I haven’t got round to an pre-game alignment discussion routine).

I came to realise I have a very precise view on how the 2 axis of alignment (Law-Chaos, Good-Evil) interact, and that’s it’s not just different from Matt Colville’s, but also from the differing ways I’ve heard alignment talked about. For me both axis are continuums; I can put my character motivations largely anywhere. For some people the 9 options are encompassing descriptions – you have to be in one of the nine. Other’s only use 1 of the 2 axis – and I suspect other people uses a third or fourth.

So I’d be interested to hear how everyone else personally views alignment, and how they bring that to the table as a player or GM – and if you are a GM, do you press that view early on and insist players follow it, or do you only deal with it if the characters behaviour gets too far out of tolerance?

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Also, I’d like to keep this as a conversational, pleasant thread – So if you’re intending to rubbish someone else’s viewpoint directly or through inference (e.g. “I find the whole Law-Chaos thing dumb, pointless, and ruins games”, which infers that anyone who really likes the Law-Chaos distinction is a bit of an idiot), or the alignment system in general. I can’t stop you, but I’d kindly ask you to keep your thoughts to yourself, and go start your own post.

This is ideally a celebration of how people use alignment to enhance and define their games – not a heroic tale of how your personal brilliance overcame the evil tyranny of alignment

I use alignment in the games I run as a roleplaying guideline. It does not control/dictate how you must act. If you act outside of your alignment, it may change it, but that has little impact in the game.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

Fascinating! So much of the game is what people make of it, for all the universal experiences.

its funny I found the exact opposite that role playing improved with unaligned.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

The paladin fall from grace mechanic is something I’ve only used twice in all my years of gaming. In the one, the PC decided to challenge a good-aligned deity (Helm, I think). The other incident involved a player that brought a preexisting character with 18s in every stat into my game (in hindsight, I should’ve just told him “no” and made him re-roll, but I was 14 or 15 at the time).


These days, I feel it better left in the dustbin of past edition rules alongside percentile strength and weapon speed. There are better ways with dealing with people not playing their character or keeping their vows than stripping them of their core concept.

My bias comes from 'a decade or more of seeing DMs set Paladins up to fail and then punish them in unfair ways'.

 

[Caliban]

I require the players to take a battery of personality tests, in the role of their character before the game starts. (Just a standard few: Myers-Briggs, Voight-Kampff, etc). Based on those results I determine the alignment of their character.

Every few game sessions they repeat the tests and I use the new results to determine if their alignment has started to shift.

 

[guachi]

I have a document I have people read before they join my game. Some of it is just a summary of campaign background, gods and what-not. But I start the whole thing off with "don't play an evil character" and "don't play a jerk". I don't want PVP in my games and while your character doesn't have to be friends with everyone in the group, there is a line of antagonizing other PCs that shouldn't be crossed.

Basically, this is a cooperative game. If you want to grief other players, find a different game. Want to play an anti-social ass who hates everyone? Play a different game. It's one thing to have differing opinions, goals and beliefs. In character disagreements are fine. But don't be the guy to refuses to be part of a team.

One of our players is quite funny.He's said things that make everyone laugh. And his PC tried to play practical jokes on the dwarf. I didn't see that he crossed the line into griefing and I told both of them that if players wanted to have some kind of interparty conflict like a practical joke or gambling that the players could invent whatever rules and resolution techniques they wanted and the results only stood if all parties agreed.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

I require the players to take a battery of personality tests, in the role of their character before the game starts. (Just a standard few: Myers-Briggs, Voight-Kampff, etc). Based on those results I determine the alignment of their character.

Every few game sessions they repeat the tests and I use the new results to determine if their alignment has started to shift.

Um... what do you do if they fail the Voight-Kampff test?

 

[Caliban]

Um... what do you do if they fail the Voight-Kampff test?

Well, they better be playing a warforged or things get ugly.