D&D General How Do You "Roll Up" Ability Scores?

[Shardstone]

All players in my games do 2d6 + 6. The best array is the array everyone uses. I prefer this array because it highlights that adventurers are serious and because I run more dangerous games then the typical DM.

 

[thullgrim]

My players chose Curse of the Crimson Throne in PF1. They will using a 15 point point buy from the PF1 rulebook. The PF1 APs are designed around that so we might as well use. It might lessen the amount of encounter changes I’ll need to make early on.

I’m half convinced high-point point buys are part of the issue with how easy many APs seem to be. Resigning star bloat up front can have repercussions for many levels in my opinion.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Okay, but that's just a feature of rolling. You have that whether you have a reroll rule or not. In fact, a reroll rule will lower the potential disparity by lowering the variance of the rolls.

No, the feature of rolling is that you sometimes roll low, sometimes average, and sometimes high. If you get to reroll every time you roll low, then not only does it wind up skewing high, but anyone who rolls low gets more than one chance to get high rolls.

At any rate, I didn't expect to have to defend the idea that the above seems unfair. I don't feel particularly strongly about it, I just don't like it very much and prefer other methods. It's not like if I were playing a game where the DM wanted it that way that I'd "whine" about it, as has been unjustly suggested here.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

When we start a campaign, we talk about how we'll determine PC stats during Session 0. We've used point buy in the past, once with a variation to make an 8 into a 6 and gain +1 to another stat. Our latest campaign has used 4d6 DL - no rerolls. Everyone buys in at Session 0 so... "you get what you get and you don't get upset". In any case, the variation in stats is not all that noticeable to us other than some players leaning into some weaker stats to give their character some flavor.

Intra-party "balance" doesn't seem to be as much of a priority for us as it is at some other tables either, perhaps for a few reasons: 1. 10-20% difference in some stat modifier(s) is perceptively negligible during any given session; 2. a particularly high-statted character can be viewed as a great asset in achieving the party's goal; 3. everyone at the table, the DM and the players, are dedicated to sharing the spotlight; 4. a weak stat in some area does not preclude a character from trying something in the game world - they might be slightly worse than the average bear at it, but it doesn't mean they are locked out of some part of the game.

Anyway, that's our table.

 

[The Soloist]

For my solitary games, I decide what the ability scores will be. No rolls. That does not mean they are superheroes or that they don't have scores below 10.

For group games point buy or standard array.

 

[ichabod]

No, the feature of rolling is that you sometimes roll low, sometimes average, and sometimes high. If you get to reroll every time you roll low, then not only does it wind up skewing high, but anyone who rolls low gets more than one chance to get high rolls.

You seem to think that if someone gets a reroll, they get a better chance of getting a high roll. That is not the case. Your odds of getting a high roll do not change if you get a reroll. If two people roll, and one of them gets a reroll, they still both have the same probability of getting a high roll. In fact, the guy who got the reroll has the same probability of ending up with the lower result as the guy who didn't get the reroll.

There is no extra chance to get a high roll. Everyone has one chance to get a high roll: their first valid roll. The fact that someone can make an invalid roll doesn't change the fact that each person only gets one valid roll, which only gives them one chance at getting a high roll.

Say you have two options: option A is to roll 1d6, but you get to reroll 1's and 2's. Option B is to roll 1d4+2. You seem to think option A would be unfair because there are rerolls. But the two options are exactly the same. They give the exact same probabilities. This is a mathematical fact.

At any rate, I didn't expect to have to defend the idea that the above seems unfair. I don't feel particularly strongly about it, I just don't like it very much and prefer other methods. It's not like if I were playing a game where the DM wanted it that way that I'd "whine" about it, as has been unjustly suggested here.

Well, I'm sorry, but you are coming here and telling people they are being unfair when they are not. You are telling me that I have been unfair when I haven't. Expect to have to defend that statement. Especially when you are misrepresenting probabilities to make that statement.

 

[delericho]

You are making a new PC for a D&D game. How do you generate ability scores for the character?

Ask the DM - it's their campaign, so they set the parameters.

That said, if the answer is "roll these dice" with no option to point buy or use a standard array, I'm going to gracefully bow out (likewise rolling hit points on levelling). I've had too many bad characters that way.

If you are the GM, how do you require players "roll up" scores?

Sometimes I require standard array (or a choice of arrays), sometimes point buy, and often a choice (including an option to roll). But I never require rolled scores.

I do require fixed hit points per level - no rolling for those.

Why?

Depends on the feel I'm going for with the campaign or, more likely, how experienced the players are. And sometimes, I just want to mix it up.

Basically, over the years I've gone backwards and forwards on stat generation loads of times, and my ultimate conclusion is that the perfect method just doesn't exist.

In either case, does it change based on campaign or edition, or does your table(s) do it the same way no matter what?

Yeah, it changes campaign by campaign. And when a new edition launches we will always at least try the default (non-random) generation method (assuming there is one).

 

[Lakesidefantasy]

I bet you'd roll your hit points at my table. I again tempt my players with a choice: They can take the average or they can roll; if they roll they get +2 hit extra hit points!

 

[FitzTheRuke]

You seem to think that if someone gets a reroll, they get a better chance of getting a high roll.

Not a better chance, no - another chance is what they get. Meanwhile, the player who rolled a minimally acceptable character keeps it. I've never suggested that that player complains about it. They could play it. I've just pointed out that it is NOT equal when the one who rerolls winds up with a better character. It doesn't really matter that they could conceivably wind up with another low-scored character (and very probably reroll again) or if they could roll another average character.

That is not the case. Your odds of getting a high roll do not change if you get a reroll. If two people roll, and one of them gets a reroll, they still both have the same probability of getting a high roll. In fact, the guy who got the reroll has the same probability of ending up with the lower result as the guy who didn't get the reroll.

I understand what you mean with the math. That's not the issue. The issue is that they'll generally keep rolling until the MEET OR BEAT the player who rolled "basic acceptable" the first time. It's obviously different if you only allow one reroll and you take the second character (though the problem still exists when that roll happens to be high). The math isn't the issue. What actually happens is.

Well, I'm sorry, but you are coming here and telling people they are being unfair when they are not. You are telling me that I have been unfair when I haven't. Expect to have to defend that statement. Especially when you are misrepresenting probabilities to make that statement.

I don't know what to tell you, if you can't see how it works out inequitably in practice.

But perhaps you should not take it so personally - I wasn't in any way attacking you or your approach. You can do whatever you like. I was simply saying why I don't like it.

The point of this thread, IS after all, about discussing rolling vs not rolling. I would assume that it is a safe place to do so. You can disagree if you like, but I'm not attacking you, so I'd appreciate the same in return.

 

[Enrico Poli1]

I like very high stats!
When I DM 5e/3.0/3.5/Pathfinder, I give the PCs 18, 14, 14, 10, 10, 10 to arrange as they like.
When I DM BECMI/AD&D1e/2e, I use this method: roll 3d6 and change the lowest die to 6, six times, then arrange as desired.
When I DM Dark Sun in AD&D2e, I use the last suggested method (every ability starts at 10, then roll 10d4 and add the dice as desired).