How does pulling old edition pdfs benefit WotC?

[Mistwell]

The problem with this theory is that it is too non-conspiratorial/non-stupid. What I mean by this is that if this was the case it would be easy for them to say that they are pulling the PDFs because they are not cost effective. While some people will complain about PDFs going away WotC wouldn't have the additional negative PR of being stupid or shady. Instead WotC comes up with the piracy explanation that makes no sense. So if not being cost effective is the real reason why hide it behind a fake story about piracy. If they are going to use a fake story, conspiracy comes to mind before a belief that they are too stupid to not use the real and innocuous reason.

1) You are assuming they have ever directly commented to the reason for pulling the older edition stuff.

2_ And you are assuming that they have even seen any actual negative PR from the non-4e stuff. Remember, they see the actual numbers for sales, and they may well know something we do not - that non-4e PDFs sold virtually nothing relative to total sales, and anger over the issue is viewed as just the same people who already hate WOTC taking another opportunity to complain about something WOTC did.

As for #1, from what I have seen, they have responded to general questions about the pulling of all PDFs, and for that their primary answer is piracy.

They have briefly commented about older edition stuff, but only to say they don't plan on offering PDFs, and not to explain why that portion was pulled.

So I think the two are not mutually exclusive. They can pull all PDFs in general due to piracy, and specifically the older edition ones because the hassle was not worth it (IE they were not profitable enough to justify splitting 4e from non-4e PDFs and continuing to sell the non-4e PDFs).

And they can dismiss "negative PR" if they view it as just the same people who were already angry and not buying their products just expressing more anger.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

1) You are assuming they have ever directly commented to the reason for pulling the older edition stuff.

No they haven't commented on just the older stuff. That is part of what is leaving people scracthing their heads.

2_ And you are assuming that they have even seen any actual negative PR from the non-4e stuff. Remember, they see the actual numbers for sales, and they may well know something we do not - that non-4e PDFs sold virtually nothing relative to total sales, and anger over the issue is viewed as just the same people who already hate WOTC taking another opportunity to complain about something WOTC did.

The fact that we are still talking about it indicates that it is negtive PR. The fact that Greg Leeds has had to come out and do interviews indicates that it is negative PR. Whether WotC chooses to see it is something that only WotC can answer.

As for #1, from what I have seen, they have responded to general questions about the pulling of all PDFs, and for that their primary answer is piracy.

So if the older stuff was because it wasn't cost effective why not say so. They have had multiple oportunities to say so. They have not.

They have briefly commented about older edition stuff, but only to say they don't plan on offering PDFs, and not to explain why that portion was pulled.

So I think the two are not mutually exclusive. They can pull all PDFs in general due to piracy, and specifically the older edition ones because the hassle was not worth it (IE they were not profitable enough to justify splitting 4e from non-4e PDFs and continuing to sell the non-4e PDFs).

Which still leaves the question of if it wasn't piracy then what was it. Your option is valid but they don't seem to be willing to say so even though it would go along way to calming people down. This goes back to the stupidity option because they are not not giving (your) valid reason when they could do so.

And they can dismiss "negative PR" if they view it as just the same people who were already angry and not buying their products just expressing more anger.

I don't think it is productive for them to continually anger older fans, but it is their choice. If angering older fans resulted in more new fans I could see the benefit, but I don't see how what they are doing would draw in new fans.

 

[Lanefan]

I don't think it is productive for them to continually anger older fans, but it is their choice. If angering older fans resulted in more new fans I could see the benefit, but I don't see how what they are doing would draw in new fans.

It won't, and here's why:

The best way to grow the hobby in general is, as mentioned in another thread, for people to become DMs and start new gaming groups.

Well, who's most likely to become a DM? That's right, someone who has been playing awhile. The "older fan".

In 0e and 1e days, someone would dive in and be the DM because - well, there wasn't much other choice. Now, however, being a DM ain't as easy; thus someone new to the game is unlikely to jump right in as a DM. (please note that I say unlikely; nothing's impossible)

Angering the older fans won't just hurt WotC, but the hobby as a whole; and that's a shame.

Lanefan

 

[Mournblade94]

I don't think it is productive for them to continually anger older fans, but it is their choice. If angering older fans resulted in more new fans I could see the benefit, but I don't see how what they are doing would draw in new fans.

This is absolutely true. The LARP I am in has over 200 people. Many of them are 14-16 year olds. I am part of the leadership of that Larp. We invite people to tabletop games. We do not play 4e.

When asked by the younger crowd from the LARP what games to play, we give good suggestions... that do not include 4e. We are probably responsible for the youngest surge in HERO players for quite some time.

 

[Dr. Harry]

The problem with this theory is that it is too non-conspiratorial/non-stupid. ... If they are going to use a fake story, conspiracy comes to mind before a belief that they are too stupid to not use the real and innocuous reason.

An examination of the history of WotC's interaction with the fan community suggests to my mind that you may be underestimating their ability in this regard.

 

[Dr. Harry]

Double Post

 

[Mistwell]

I think it's fair to say that this may well be an almost-non-issue for WOTC.

They have not explained the pulling of non-4e PDFs because they view it as meaningless to try and explain it. The sales were so weak for those products, it wouldn't matter. The complaints from the non-4e players are so often, that placating on one issue seems meaningless because the complaints are now a many headed hydra. Any prior attempt to address those issues was met with even more complaints, so they see no point in trying to address this one. From their perspective, it may seem like crying wolf at this point.

I really think that is the most likely answer - they just don't care about the non-4e stuff, and they have valid reasons to not care.

 

[JohnRTroy]

I really think that is the most likely answer - they just don't care about the non-4e stuff, and they have valid reasons to not care.

Keep in mind too that Wizards was creating PDFs, having Jim Butler and his team keep scanning them. However, a long time ago they got the order to stop and not do further products, though they didn't stop selling the old inventory. So, people who knew that should have known that these items were probably going to have a limited shelf life.

This has been something on the back burner for a while. Quite honestly, they probably were willing to keep the PDF sales as is until the piracy rose and profits dwindled.

 

[Kask]

So if the older stuff was because it wasn't cost effective why not say so. They have had multiple oportunities to say so. They have not.

Exactly. Why assume a reason that WotC would have stated and they didn't? Totally illogical. We have eliminated the possibilities and are left with killing the competition of old versions...

 

[Voadam]

Keep in mind too that Wizards was creating PDFs, having Jim Butler and his team keep scanning them. However, a long time ago they got the order to stop and not do further products, though they didn't stop selling the old inventory. So, people who knew that should have known that these items were probably going to have a limited shelf life.

This has been something on the back burner for a while. Quite honestly, they probably were willing to keep the PDF sales as is until the piracy rose and profits dwindled.

Nah. When they discontinued the scanning program I expected they decided they would not make enough money soon enough from pdf sales to justify paying for further scanning. I did not expect them to pull the existing products from sale, particularly since they went to rpgnow and paizo where the vast majority of costs and handling issues are handled by the distributors and WotC's only costs seem to be tracking their incoming money and remembering that this income stream exists.

If WotC was going to sell them exclusively themselves again I would expect them to be pulled, but they have said they won't. The closest they have come to that is to say they are exploring possibilities for alternative digital distribution schemes.

WotC did not IMO send any flags to reasonably alert people that the pdfs would be pulled until they told RPGNOW and Paizo to pull them.