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How does Savage Worlds play?
- Thread starter DreadPirateMurphy
- Start date
havard
Adventurer
My absolute favorite system. I use it for all heroic type gaming these days. It allows flexible character creation, short prep time and fast paced action/combat sequences. Also it has rules to support all the common fantasy/sci fi tropes. These are pretty much all my requirements for a system these days.
I've used it for Solomon Kane, Mystara (Beastman Invasions BC1000) and my ongoing Blackmoor campaign.
Havard
I've used it for Solomon Kane, Mystara (Beastman Invasions BC1000) and my ongoing Blackmoor campaign.
Havard
As others have pointed out, it's very fast (most of the time) to do large combats which can be a blessing all by itself. Combat remains fast as long as the GM remembers to hand out bennies. Once those run out, the PC will either lose or have long periods of "I'm shaken, I'm shaken, I'm shaken, I attack."
Group and individual tactics are very important. Standing toe-to-toe and just slugging it out with high toughness foes will last forever. Players and GM must remember tricks, edges, ganging up, environment, etc. to gain the edge over each other. This encourages fluid and energetic fights/combats. Plus it's fun to yell, "I slide under the table, pop up and stab him in the back!" then do the rolls to see if you can do it with appropriate bonuses and penalties. Before someone jumps on me and says, "you can do that in any RPG." I realize that; I just think Savage Worlds along with D&D4e encourages it.
Quick edit: Because Savage Worlds does not rely on or use Feats for many (if not all) of its special tactics (tripping, etc.), it frees the GM and players from the mindset of "I/you don't have that feat so I/you can't do it." Of course, you don't need the feat to do it in D&D either, but I've run into new players and players online who slip into that frame of mind. Those of us who post online and frequent forum tend to be exempt from this mindset as we are much more hardcore rpgers than the average dude on the rpg street, so to speak. I mention this because I recently ran a game with friends and a couple of strangers who were coming from D&D and those poor strangers kept forgetting or not mentioning tactics simply because they didn't have the feats for them. It took only a few minutes to break the mindset, though. I don't think it's an endemic problem, just one seen from time to time.
Magic will be very bland if you go in with a D&D mindset. The number of powers/spells in the Savage Worlds Explorer Edition is fairly short, but the range of those powers is fairly large. Each power does a lot of stuff. It may be unfortunate for some thought that those powers as written don't possess much color: that's what trappings are for.
Overall, I very much like it. My playing and GMing time is severely limited. Beyond the dozen times I've played D&D4e, Savage Worlds fills in the larger percentage of my playing/GMing time for some simple reasons: prep time is very fast, the source books (e.g., Fantasy Companion) and the world books (e.g., Deadlands Reloaded, Solomon Kane, etc.) are top notch and have enough infor and adventures in them to last me years. As a cherry on the top, the online community and support is second to none.
Group and individual tactics are very important. Standing toe-to-toe and just slugging it out with high toughness foes will last forever. Players and GM must remember tricks, edges, ganging up, environment, etc. to gain the edge over each other. This encourages fluid and energetic fights/combats. Plus it's fun to yell, "I slide under the table, pop up and stab him in the back!" then do the rolls to see if you can do it with appropriate bonuses and penalties. Before someone jumps on me and says, "you can do that in any RPG." I realize that; I just think Savage Worlds along with D&D4e encourages it.
Quick edit: Because Savage Worlds does not rely on or use Feats for many (if not all) of its special tactics (tripping, etc.), it frees the GM and players from the mindset of "I/you don't have that feat so I/you can't do it." Of course, you don't need the feat to do it in D&D either, but I've run into new players and players online who slip into that frame of mind. Those of us who post online and frequent forum tend to be exempt from this mindset as we are much more hardcore rpgers than the average dude on the rpg street, so to speak. I mention this because I recently ran a game with friends and a couple of strangers who were coming from D&D and those poor strangers kept forgetting or not mentioning tactics simply because they didn't have the feats for them. It took only a few minutes to break the mindset, though. I don't think it's an endemic problem, just one seen from time to time.
Magic will be very bland if you go in with a D&D mindset. The number of powers/spells in the Savage Worlds Explorer Edition is fairly short, but the range of those powers is fairly large. Each power does a lot of stuff. It may be unfortunate for some thought that those powers as written don't possess much color: that's what trappings are for.
Overall, I very much like it. My playing and GMing time is severely limited. Beyond the dozen times I've played D&D4e, Savage Worlds fills in the larger percentage of my playing/GMing time for some simple reasons: prep time is very fast, the source books (e.g., Fantasy Companion) and the world books (e.g., Deadlands Reloaded, Solomon Kane, etc.) are top notch and have enough infor and adventures in them to last me years. As a cherry on the top, the online community and support is second to none.
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I too prefer the Cortex System. Almost completely because I enjoy hit points more than the Shaken/Wounded system of Savage Worlds.
The Cortex World Books (ex: Supernatural, BSG) are very well put together, visually appealing and fun to read. What I wish is that Cortex would put out books like Savage Worlds' Fantasy Companion and Supers Companion that expand on certain genres
A very big plus for Cortex is that there is a code inside the cover of the hard copy version that allows you to download a free copy of it in PDF form from DrivethruRpg (or is it RPGnow, I forget). This is something I wish ALL RPGs did. Now, I can glance over the book in class when I should be listening about advanced pharmacology or anesthesia!
However, I find the online fan and official support and VTT support much greater for Savage Worlds at the moment, though that gap is quickly narrowing. Cortexsystemrpg.org has a lot of great people on it that are extremely helpful!
It is easier for me to get people to play Savage Worlds starting from zero/scratch for some reason. Especially for kids my daughter's age (11-12). They can learn Cortex or D&D4e. It's simply a matter of competing with other activities that are easier to get into (xBox, computer games, board games, arts and crafts, etc.). Learning the game needs to be fast and easy for her and her friends or she'd rather do something else equally as fun.
For one shots, short campaigns, etc., Savage Worlds is easily on par with Cortex. Cortex might win out over long campaigns though. I haven't had a chance to experience that.
havard
Adventurer
Lack of hit points takes a bit of an adjustment to get used to, but that is really one of my favorite aspects of Savage Worlds.
I also like how this game falls into the middle ground when it comes to rules light vs rules heavy; rules and tactics still matter without becoing an object of the game itself.
Havard
I also like how this game falls into the middle ground when it comes to rules light vs rules heavy; rules and tactics still matter without becoing an object of the game itself.
Havard
frankthedm
First Post
Pretty good, but
http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...t-savage-worlds-what-should-i-know-about.html
http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-rules-discussion/247431-what-rule-system-am-i-looking.html
http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...e-my-next-system.html?highlight=savage+worlds
- a horde, even of weak foes, will pull a party down pretty fast.
- Like any point buy system, it is easy to build lopsided PCs.
- The Bolt power is a bit too efficient at overwhelming a single target.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...t-savage-worlds-what-should-i-know-about.html
http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-rules-discussion/247431-what-rule-system-am-i-looking.html
http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...e-my-next-system.html?highlight=savage+worlds
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I have played Savage Worlds for several years now. I can't really compare it to 3E or 4E, since I'm an AD&D man myself, but I agree with a lot of the comments above. It does play fast, but Bolt is really deadly, and so are large numbers of foes.
The fact that you can shoot someone (or stab them, etc), hit them, and basically do nothing bothers me a bit. Many "hits" on a tough foe will do nothing at all. I guess that 's a matter of taste. It might the same number of hits to bring down a high level AD&D fighter, but all of those hits had some effect (they took away some HP) while in SW, most of the hits had no game effect at all. As someone wrote above, a different mindset is needed.
The other thing about damage is that nameless minion #12 could take out the most experienced character with one shot. Its very unlikely, but it can happen. Some may see that as a bad thing, some as a good thing.
The system is simple, so its a bit coarse-grained. There's stuff that you just can't do.
I also prefer the orginal Deadlands to SW, but the group I game with prefers SW, so I play it.
The fact that you can shoot someone (or stab them, etc), hit them, and basically do nothing bothers me a bit. Many "hits" on a tough foe will do nothing at all. I guess that 's a matter of taste. It might the same number of hits to bring down a high level AD&D fighter, but all of those hits had some effect (they took away some HP) while in SW, most of the hits had no game effect at all. As someone wrote above, a different mindset is needed.
The other thing about damage is that nameless minion #12 could take out the most experienced character with one shot. Its very unlikely, but it can happen. Some may see that as a bad thing, some as a good thing.
The system is simple, so its a bit coarse-grained. There's stuff that you just can't do.
I also prefer the orginal Deadlands to SW, but the group I game with prefers SW, so I play it.
havard
Adventurer
The horde thing is about heroic feel, and one of my players also said he thought the game would be more heroic. Of course, for some reason my players will stash up alot less in non-D&D systems. You choose not to wear the most powerful armor available, you gotta live with the consequences.
I havent used the magic system much, but noticed the Bolt spell during my last session as well. Any suggestions on how to limit that one? Should it even be possible to launch more than one bolt on a single target?
This is alot about mindset as you say. For this to work, everyone *has* to roleplay the consequences of non-consequential hits. If a player takes advantage of this system, I would make him roll against fatigue for suffering a large number of hits. It has to be roleplayed for NPCs too though. A tough NPC having the PCs gang up on him might choose to flee rather than to suffer a hundrer minor cuts.
I ignore the mortal woulds result on the Knocked Out table. IMC PCs can't die unless an NPC spends an action killing them. That's a genre statement though. Plus it means I get to run quite few "PCs get captured scenarios".
Exactly. Its a tradeoff between simplicity and granularity/complexity.
Havard
A
amerigoV
Guest
I am a new Savage (previously a D&Der - 1e and 3e, looked at 4e but just not interested). Here are my thoughts:
From the DM Perspective:
As others have said, prep work is a breeze. Once you have enough experience, you can run other system's stuff and convert on the fly (I am not quite there myself, but I can see it). It feels like the 4e approach in that monsters are simplier but there is system stucture underneth it (note the rules tell you DO NOT BUILD A MONSTER OR NPC LIKE A PC - awesome advice).
The system has an overall narrower range of power progression. As someone on PEGs boards put it, you do not go from n00b* to god, but from good to great.
*4e obviously changed the starting point a bit.
Some have touched on the no-hit point approach. This is a HUGE advantage for me. Extras (minions or weak monsters) are either up, shaken, or down - hardly any tracking. Wilds (cool monsters and PCs) are up, shaken, up to 3 wounds, or down. At the table, poker chips are perfect. White is shaken and red are wounds - stack'em up! I have run several sessions without writing a single thing down in combat (think loooong and hard about that, you HP junkies). No more questions about "well, how hurt does it look?" - its out there on the table. All my attention is on the table, not a computer or paper to track stuff.
The SWEX just oozes with ideas. Since the system works well across genres, I am interested in exploring other gaming concepts. Sure, d20 had all that, but all the feats and costumization just did not seem worth the hassle.
PCs:
I find there is enough Crunch and Fiddly bits to keep players happy about character creation, but not enough to overwhelm players that are not huge into systems. Somewhere in the middle of 2e and 3e in complexity (note that making a brand new PC takes very little time if you have the concept in mind, only higher "level" PCs take some thought).
Tactics matter. While fast and furious, it is not just throwing dice. Range weapons are deadly - TAKE COVER! Tactics are needed for the BBEG as they can shrug off hits.
Bennies are fun! In D&D, hit points are the currancy of chance. That is what keeps the hit level PCs from being immediately eaten by a dragon. In SW, its Bennies - like action or plot points. You can reroll if the dice are against you or soak up big hits.
Hindrances rock - other systems (like Cortex, I am sure many others) have hindrances/disadvantages. The lead to a bit of min/max, but they also lead to roleplay. You earn more Bennies by roleplay/cool actions - and playing to your hindrances instead of metagaming is a quick way to earn a Bennie.
Exploding dice are fun (keep rolling if you max out a die). Yes, it can hammer you, but it builds excitement at the table when a player keeps on rolling.
My group, all D&Ders, picked up on it really quick. They have not gotten all the intricacies down, but after 3 or 4 sessions the system faded into the background (except for Bolt - a powerful spell that is rule intensive - if you figure out Bolt, you can run anything).
As others have pointed out, there is a very active community.
Finally, I found The Making of SW to give great insight to how the system plays and the philosphy of the mechanics. That really spoke to me.
http://www.peginc.com/Downloads/SWEX/MakingofSW.pdf
From the DM Perspective:
As others have said, prep work is a breeze. Once you have enough experience, you can run other system's stuff and convert on the fly (I am not quite there myself, but I can see it). It feels like the 4e approach in that monsters are simplier but there is system stucture underneth it (note the rules tell you DO NOT BUILD A MONSTER OR NPC LIKE A PC - awesome advice).
The system has an overall narrower range of power progression. As someone on PEGs boards put it, you do not go from n00b* to god, but from good to great.
*4e obviously changed the starting point a bit.
Some have touched on the no-hit point approach. This is a HUGE advantage for me. Extras (minions or weak monsters) are either up, shaken, or down - hardly any tracking. Wilds (cool monsters and PCs) are up, shaken, up to 3 wounds, or down. At the table, poker chips are perfect. White is shaken and red are wounds - stack'em up! I have run several sessions without writing a single thing down in combat (think loooong and hard about that, you HP junkies
). No more questions about "well, how hurt does it look?" - its out there on the table. All my attention is on the table, not a computer or paper to track stuff. The SWEX just oozes with ideas. Since the system works well across genres, I am interested in exploring other gaming concepts. Sure, d20 had all that, but all the feats and costumization just did not seem worth the hassle.
PCs:
I find there is enough Crunch and Fiddly bits to keep players happy about character creation, but not enough to overwhelm players that are not huge into systems. Somewhere in the middle of 2e and 3e in complexity (note that making a brand new PC takes very little time if you have the concept in mind, only higher "level" PCs take some thought).
Tactics matter. While fast and furious, it is not just throwing dice. Range weapons are deadly - TAKE COVER! Tactics are needed for the BBEG as they can shrug off hits.
Bennies are fun! In D&D, hit points are the currancy of chance. That is what keeps the hit level PCs from being immediately eaten by a dragon. In SW, its Bennies - like action or plot points. You can reroll if the dice are against you or soak up big hits.
Hindrances rock - other systems (like Cortex, I am sure many others) have hindrances/disadvantages. The lead to a bit of min/max, but they also lead to roleplay. You earn more Bennies by roleplay/cool actions - and playing to your hindrances instead of metagaming is a quick way to earn a Bennie.
Exploding dice are fun (keep rolling if you max out a die). Yes, it can hammer you, but it builds excitement at the table when a player keeps on rolling.
My group, all D&Ders, picked up on it really quick. They have not gotten all the intricacies down, but after 3 or 4 sessions the system faded into the background (except for Bolt - a powerful spell that is rule intensive - if you figure out Bolt, you can run anything).
As others have pointed out, there is a very active community.
Finally, I found The Making of SW to give great insight to how the system plays and the philosphy of the mechanics. That really spoke to me.
http://www.peginc.com/Downloads/SWEX/MakingofSW.pdf
Jeremy Ackerman-Yost
Explorer
If course, in D&D, lost hit points are kinda sorta a game effect, but actually have no impact on the play of the game except at 0. Barring 4e, where there is also an effect at half.
In D&D you "hit" a whole bunch of times, and it does nothing at all noticeable to the target until they suddenly fall over dead.
In SW you "hit" a probabilistic number of times. The target can be shaken (and some can be wounded), which has measurable game effects on their performance. In that respect, it is a more robust simulation than D&D with a fraction of the book-keeping.
Not that simulation is in any way inherently good in this context, but I'm just using it as a counterpoint to "hits don't do anything." Actually, they do more than hits do in D&D, most of the time.
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