D&D 4E How does the 4E Barbarian Rage ability work?

[cmbarona]

I think a lot of people are missing the point of that little [W]. True, Barbarians don't have a striker-like extra damage mechanic (sneak attack, curse, quarry). The point is that they don't need it. They will be weilding huge two-handed weapons, providing an inherent boost to that [W] that rogues and Rangers (well, maybe Rangers; I haven't done the math for them, so feel free to correct me) don't normally have.

 

[Bagpuss]

The point is that they don't need it. They will be weilding huge two-handed weapons, providing an inherent boost to that [W] that rogues and Rangers (well, maybe Rangers; I haven't done the math for them, so feel free to correct me) don't normally have.

Nah they will get heavy armour and shield profs as soon as possible to get a decent AC. Then they will be defenders without the marking.

Besides if they didn't need a damage boost why is that extra +1d6 built into the at-will?

 

[Gort]

I think a lot of people are missing the point of that little [W]. True, Barbarians don't have a striker-like extra damage mechanic (sneak attack, curse, quarry). The point is that they don't need it. They will be weilding huge two-handed weapons, providing an inherent boost to that [W] that rogues and Rangers (well, maybe Rangers; I haven't done the math for them, so feel free to correct me) don't normally have.

Well, outside of superior weapons, your archery ranger will have a longbow for D10 damage (5.5 average) and your "damage barbarian" will be using a maul for 2D6 damage (7.5 average). So there's two points of damage, which doesn't really offset the extra D6-D8 (depending on whether the ranger has taken the no-brainer feat that all rangers should have) to damage a ranger normally does.

However, some of his powers (for instance Howling Strike) have a damage bonus built-in, so that takes care of the problem if the barbarian chooses to use his "damage powers".

All in all, I like the barbarian on paper, and will be interested to see how it works in play. I've heard people say that despite its high hitpoints it'll get shredded in combat, but I seem to remember that happening with every 3e barbarian I ever saw as well. They showed up, did a million damage to something, took a million damage, and fell down. It was fun then, hopefully it'll be fun now. And it should throw a bone to the "combat takes too long!" crowd.

 

[-Avalon-]

Ok, so new barb gets rage by using his 1 daily power until he gets a new one at 5th, when he can go rage 2 times per day?

And 3rd edition barb could Rage 1/Day at 1st level... and at 4th Rage 2/Day...

I see a minor change there, and barbs are way cooler now with extra abilities and feats every other level, etc etc?

 

[Starbuck_II]

Ok, so new barb gets rage by using his 1 daily power until he gets a new one at 5th, when he can go rage 2 times per day?

And 3rd edition barb could Rage 1/Day at 1st level... and at 4th Rage 2/Day...

I see a minor change there, and barbs are way cooler now with extra abilities and feats every other level, etc etc?

yeah, you know the saying: the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Kinda like the Red Queen Hypothesis.

 

[Engilbrand]

I don't quite understand the automatic assumption that Barbarians will be gunning for armor feats, let alone shield feats. I'll call that playing the class wrong. There was a thread a while back about a player deciding to play a dual dagger wielding Paladin of the Raven Queen because he wanted to show that it would suck. That's a case of playing it wrong. If you want a big, powerful guy in heavy armor, a shield and a one-handed weapon, you choose a Fighter, a Paladin, or a Warlord. Not a Barbarian. If you choose a Barbarian, you're going against the spirit of the class, and of the game.
Those sorts of arguments, "It's broken because all Barbarians are going to get these feats and [insert crap here]..." don't make any more sense than, "This ability is broken because, if we imagine a line of enemies 100 deep, spaced like this..."
When I play a Barbarian, you know what I'm going to take? Power Attack. Weapon Focus Mordenkrad or Executioner's Axe. Toughness. You know what I'm not going to do? Waste all of my feats trying to make him a little harder to hurt. I'm going to sink things into making him kill stuff faster. Why? Because he's a Barbarian.

 

[RigaMortus2]

No thanks.

Better to have it recharge with milestones for example, every encounter. 4th Ed isn't about "number of times per day"

Sure it is... Paladins for example have that limitation for Lay on Hands. I take it you haven't played/seen the Paladin in play yet?

 

[Dungnmaster001]

I don't quite understand the automatic assumption that Barbarians will be gunning for armor feats, let alone shield feats.

Many barbarians will be taking the armor feats. This is because the only 2 stats that will matter to most of them is Str, and Con. That leaves very little left (assuming standard point buy method for stats) for dex or int making hide armor not very effective as protection.

However I am also one that won't be spending my feats on armor until later in the build (perhaps around paragon I'll free up some space for chain..probably not going all the way up to scale or plate).

Most people are thinking of the barbarian as similar to the other strikers in terms of squishiness. With rangers and rogues they pump up stats to increase their defenses. Then along comes the Barbarian and it discourages this by placing it's 2 primary attributes in stats that only affect the Fort defense. AC, Ref, and Will will be lower than other strikers true but I think it will even out due to my next point.

What many are seemingly overlooking is the temporary hitpoints many of the powers grant. This will offset a lot of the incoming damage and is there specifically to shore up weak defenses. Also getting hit isn't always a bad thing for the barbarian. Many things trigger off being bloodied.

Overall I'm withholding final judgement until I see it in actual play session (hopefully soon if my group ever gets around to having it's next session).

I'm curious if anyone here has had a chance to play one in a real session yet (not just a few mock combats or theoretical exercises).

 

[the8bitdeity]

Many barbarians will be taking the armor feats. This is because the only 2 stats that will matter to most of them is Str, and Con. That leaves very little left (assuming standard point buy method for stats) for dex or int making hide armor not very effective as protection.

However I am also one that won't be spending my feats on armor until later in the build (perhaps around paragon I'll free up some space for chain..probably not going all the way up to scale or plate).

Most people are thinking of the barbarian as similar to the other strikers in terms of squishiness. With rangers and rogues they pump up stats to increase their defenses. Then along comes the Barbarian and it discourages this by placing it's 2 primary attributes in stats that only affect the Fort defense. AC, Ref, and Will will be lower than other strikers true but I think it will even out due to my next point.

What many are seemingly overlooking is the temporary hitpoints many of the powers grant. This will offset a lot of the incoming damage and is there specifically to shore up weak defenses. Also getting hit isn't always a bad thing for the barbarian. Many things trigger off being bloodied.

Overall I'm withholding final judgement until I see it in actual play session (hopefully soon if my group ever gets around to having it's next session).

I'm curious if anyone here has had a chance to play one in a real session yet (not just a few mock combats or theoretical exercises).

I'll have some experiential evidence probably after about a month. My one player is changing his dragonborn fighter to barbarian. He basically had a very barbarian themed character (including only taking hide armor, and using a maul). Next weekend is Thanksgiving, so I won't have session then, but in 2 weeks we'll get back to our weekly schedule. I'll make sure to provide experiences, especially if anything is extremely broken.

 

[Danceofmasks]

I'm looking at trying it out, and frankly, I'm giving up trying to get the Barb's AC to a decent level as an exercise in futility.
Instead, maxing hitroll, landing more hits, and buying a life with temp hp seems to be the way to go.
So I'm looking at greatsword for the hitroll.

It looks like defenses are going to be the barb's weakness .. action denial is going to prove fatal.
But hey, what's new? Barbs have always been "dead foes can't hurt me"