How FAST should he turn evil? (Updated 2/9)

[Calico_Jack73]

First of all, as evil enemies are going to hell I'd have the devil stipulate that only good victims killed by the dagger are applied to the lien. Of course in typical devil fashion she could omit this information until the PC "Thinks" his soul is his again and then tell him that his balance hasn't changed at all. If I were the DM I'd have the devil play along with it and when the PC dies his sould would still be damned.
Your PC really has gotten himself in a bind. Either way his soul is damned. If he uses the dagger to win his soul back then he becomes evil and is damned anyway so that isn't a solution. If he doesn't and he maintains his alignment his soul is still damned because he sold it. As a story you could allow him to instead to adventure to the Nine Hells to destroy the contract and slay the devil that held it. That or he could instead go on a quest of good in the name of a good god who could recover his soul for him.
As far as turning evil goes some would say that the instant he kills someone with the dagger he should become evil and that is totally justified. Even if he kills a Blackguard with it who is to say that the Blackguard could not be redeemed. Look at Darth Vader in ROTJ as an example. As for me and with the fact that he is neutral I'd be a little less harsh. The instant the player treats the slaying as commonplace and doesn't roleplay the anguish of condemning another's soul to the Nine Hells is when he becomes evil

 

[Remus Lupin]

I haven't read every post, so maybe someone has thought of this before, but here's my way out: If the player is clever enough, he should seek to find a way to trick the Erynees into giving him his soul back. If the devil can win by subtle wording and trickery, then the devil can lose that way, too. What this would entail would be a very cleverly worded promise on the part of the PC, an intelligence or wisdom check on the devil's part, and then the PC technically fulfilling the promise, but in a way that betrays the devil, forcing her to release his soul.

That would be a project to set your PC on.

 

[Goobermunch]

There is, of course, another noble idea.

The character could refrain from using the dagger at all, but do nothing to attempt to thwart the demon.

If it's a noble and good thing to sacrifice your life to save others, it must be that much more noble to sacrifice your soul to save them . . . right?

Sure, he made a deal with a devil. He got information, that arguably, will save the lives of many.

As yet, the devil hasn't gained anything. Thus, her cause hasn't advanced. His has. Advantage: PC.

As long as he does nothing to aid her, her cause will be marginally advanced by a noble sacrifice (something, I would argue should hinder it), and the good guys all win.

Just a thought that's been rattling around for a few days.

--G

 

[Polydamas]

I just want to know what the character is going to do when the eryines introduces him to his child. Blackguard removes his helmet..."Don't you know me....Father?"

Evil cackle.

 

[Rel]

Thanks for the additional replies. I will let you know how this plays out.

Mostly I was inspired because, before I came in to post this, the "views" count was at 666.

 

[Orius]

I just want to know what the character is going to do when the eryines introduces him to his child. Blackguard removes his helmet..."Don't you know me....Father?"

Oh, yeah you got to that. Don't forget to give the blackguard his daddy's eyes. Make him into an evil reflection of the PC.

 

[BSF]

Rel,
Suggestion #1 - for those folks just joining us, you might want to edit your first post with the note that you have made a decision on the status of the PC. Maybe this will prevent the alignment debate.

Suggestion #2 - What can the dagger do? One option would be to stat out the devil that is bound into that form. Then, figure out what special abilities the dagger will convey 1/day as it eats more souls. Start it off simple, like after 5 Character Levels/HD of souls, the dagger will grant the ability to see in Darkness for 5 minutes, just like Devils can. That means he can see perfectly even in a darkness spell. If the bound devil has spell-like abilities, maybe it will use one on the PC's behalf 1/day after enough souls are sacrificed. Nothing too overpowering, but something that in the exactly correct circumstance is really useful. I would go with some more concrete suggestions, but you might want to custom-make a devil for your game. So, I will be a bit more vague for now.

Let me know if that is along the lines of what you are looking for. If it isn't, I will see what else comes to mind.

 

[Rel]

Rel,
Suggestion #1 - for those folks just joining us, you might want to edit your first post with the note that you have made a decision on the status of the PC. Maybe this will prevent the alignment debate.

Suggestion #2 - What can the dagger do? One option would be to stat out the devil that is bound into that form. Then, figure out what special abilities the dagger will convey 1/day as it eats more souls. Start it off simple, like after 5 Character Levels/HD of souls, the dagger will grant the ability to see in Darkness for 5 minutes, just like Devils can. That means he can see perfectly even in a darkness spell. If the bound devil has spell-like abilities, maybe it will use one on the PC's behalf 1/day after enough souls are sacrificed. Nothing too overpowering, but something that in the exactly correct circumstance is really useful. I would go with some more concrete suggestions, but you might want to custom-make a devil for your game. So, I will be a bit more vague for now.

Let me know if that is along the lines of what you are looking for. If it isn't, I will see what else comes to mind.

I'm running out the door right now so Suggestion 1 will have to wait until tonight. I like Suggestion 2 a great deal and it fits perfectly with what I've got in mind. I'm going to take that and run with it. Thanks, BSF!

 

[MerakSpielman]

My line of thought is that devils are all about deception. They'll weave a web of lies to get you to voluntarily do what you wouldn't have done before. The ability to weave believable lies is their greatest asset, despite many of them being powerful combat-entities.


To run with the ball, then, I'd say the dagger does nothing. It's a regular, masterwork dagger with a Nystul's Aura on it. After all, why spend oodles of gp and xp crafting a minor artifact soul-stealing dagger, when all you really want is for a person to make a conscious decision to send a soul to Hell? As long as that's the decision he makes, of his own free will, his own soul/alignment are negatively impacted, whether or not the soul in question actually went to Hell.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

First of all, as evil enemies are going to hell I'd have the devil stipulate that only good victims killed by the dagger are applied to the lien.

Rel has already noted that even if he only kills Evil with it, those will be souls the Erinyes is getting that would have gone to other fiends. She is benefitting, and she made no stipulation that only Good souls would count. Devils twist the exact wording of the agreement as best they can... but if they could simply change the agreements as suited them, they wouldn't be Devils at all. The whole reason they work through contracts is, contracts are explicit-- every detail of the arrangement is spelled out precisely, and the contractee has every opportunity to read the entire thing, including the fine print, before signing.

The reason that Devils' deals are tempting is that you have the idea that you're capable of twisting the deal yourself, to make gains for yourself at the Devil's expense. They can't cheat any more than you can.

Now, the player is working for the Erinyes right now because he wants his soul back... but actually helping the Erinyes will make him Evil, and, because it is most appropriate, when he dies, he'll end up stuck with the devil he's been trying to escape-- the Erinyes. In order to come out of this in one piece, he needs to figure out how to fulfill his debt to the Erinyes... without actually helping her, and preferably in such a way that he utterly screws up her plans.

The Hellblazer idea is actually quite appealing, but eventually, someone will end up with his soul. It's a delaying tactic at best. He needs to actively, and thoroughly, screw the Erinyes-- as well as get an Atonement from a good Cleric.