D&D 5E How fun are warlocks?

[tagwort]

Starting a new campaign soon and I'm leaning towards Warlock (it's between that and bard) for my next character. I'm going for a charmer/illusionist type of concept. Problem is, I know our party's gonna be all focused on damage, so I wanted to support through some control spells, and I'm not sure how 2 short-rest spellslots are going to feel. So any warlock players with positive or negative experiences that they'd like to share?

Can't decide between Archfey or GOO yet, but definitely going chain pact. What I'm particularly concerned about is hex+eldritch blast spam. Hex concentration gets interrupted every time I use the Misty Visions invocation, in addition to virtually every control and charm spell besides Charm Person and Sleep from Archfey. As awesome as a mildly spammable lvl5 Banishment would be, I'm worried the limit on spell slots will force me to just concentrate on hex so I can save my fun social spells (Detect Thoughts) for noncombat situations, and then be forced into a pure damage-spamming role in combat.

My group probably takes more short rests than average, and I'm taking Inspiring Leader to give my party a reason to short rest more (and it will be amusing with my doomsday cultist concept). I also feel like the Archfey and GOO lvl14 features would completely fix my issue, but I definitely can't ignore the 13 levels before that.

Are Warlocks stuck in a pure-damage role with eldritch blast and Hex?
If so, is that enjoyable?
Would a Warlock who never learns Hex (or delays Agonizing Blast invocation) feel underpowered or frequently useless?

 

[pukunui]

Warlocks are pretty much built around spamming the same stuff over and over. If that doesn't sound enjoyable to you, then I'd suggest going for the bard instead.

 

[Smoo]

There seems to be a sentiment on this board that a warlock is useless if you don't take eldritch blast and use it almost exclusively. My last character was a perfectly enjoyable warlock who didn't even know eldritch blast.

 

[Mephista]

Warlocks are awesome. I love playing them. At will magic is one of my most favorite things. I personally prefer to go with GOO for Chain. Telepathy with familiars is just more fun, I say, plus there's just something about using Evard's Black Tentacles that gets my chain.

If you're not worried about optimizing your character, forget about having Hex up all the time*. Its a nice spell, but not critical, and frankly, I've found that worrying about it makes it less fun to play the game. The warlock really shines when it comes to at will utility things. Wizards are probably the best, but they have to hoard their magic. A warlock generally just goes ahead and does whatever with their cantrips, skills, and Invocations. At-will Jump effects, Levitate, disguises, etc.

Warlock, despite having a full casting progression, does admittedly play a lot more like a magical ranger or paladin in combat, so don't expect to act like a sorcerer, wizard, or bard.

Also, despite what some people say, "Go play a bard!" is not an acceptable substitute. Take it from people who've had plenty of experience with the class, the two play nothing alike. The Fey pact has some similarities to the bard (not surprisingly, both have a strong fey theme), but the Fiend or GOO? Nope.



*Alternatively, if your GM is generous with magical items, as in he lets you ask for certain ones and may include them when you reach the appropriate level, ask for a ring of spell storing. You can cast Hex as a level 1 spell, even if your slot is higher. Store several instances of Hex in the ring, use that whenever it drops. I have never regretted getting the Ring during play.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Are Warlocks stuck in a pure-damage role with eldritch blast and Hex?
If so, is that enjoyable?
Would a Warlock who never learns Hex (or delays Agonizing Blast invocation) feel underpowered or frequently useless?

Forewarning: I don't really have play experience with "5e proper." I played a late-in-the-cycle playtest game (level 8, IIRC), but we had no warlock in the party. So...this is mostly looking at things from an analytical standpoint, rather than a feel standpoint.

1: "Stuck" as pure damage?
In short: Technically, no, warlocks are not "stuck" in a "pure-damage role." They can, depending on how you build them, also do other things, but it is complex to express how and why. Built carefully, a Warlock can be mediocre-to-adequate at combat and very good at certain kinds of non-combat things.

In long: Warlocks have unusually strong cantrip damage, well beyond essentially all other casters. They need this because, until you reach a very high level, on average you will have less than one spell per combat for a typical day (6-8 encounters, 2-3 short rests). In effect, Warlocks "aren't really casters." I mean, they have a full casting progression because of the Mystic Arcana stuff, but their spells really aren't intended to be the "meat" of the class, but rather a special extra thing layered on top of their more "reliable" tools (cantrips and at-will spells via invocations). The invocations may SEEM like they aren't much, but they are really the core of the class: invocations are how you maintain your 'focus' on whatever pact/build you've chosen, since both "blasting" Warlocks and Blade Warlocks have specific invocations they need to pick up to remain viable in the long-term (Blade in particular requires some relatively significant optimization, from what others with more play-experience have told me.)

The Tome pact, on the other hand, has an invocation that gets you (essentially) the ritual equivalent of the Lore Bard's "take a spell from any class" feature. Rituals can give you an awful lot of non-combat utility, and the Tome Warlock has the best access to rituals in the game (no one else can "steal" rituals from other classes' spell lists), and (AFAIK?) no one can copy ritual spells regardless of origin, if they find a scroll for it. Then, you can add onto this with the various "no cost, at will" *and repeatable* invocations, and can get some interesting stuff. Self-levitation (Ascendant Step), animal-talking (Beast Speech), ability to read ALL writing without any exception for coding or language (Eyes of the Rune Keeper), permanent self-disguise (Mask of Many Faces), at-will Alter Self (Master of Myriad Forms), a certain amount of stealthing (One with Shadows), and some other stuff as well. But you only get 8 in total, and more than half (5) by 9th level. Combine the special ritual stuff with a handful of potentially-potent at-will magic effects, and you have someone who can pull out a number of tricks, some quickly and some slowly. In a sense, the Tome Warlock is the ultimate "charlatan" magician: they don't have much "raw power," but they can be, if you'll pardon the pun, tricky devils.

2: Well, uh, enjoyment is in the eye of the beholder, so I cannot rightfully answer that question. Some people think it's great. Other people have found it frustrating and boring, because they came in expecting to be a spell-flinging fiend. The Warlock must, to a certain extent, 'shepherd' her spells, save them for when they're really "needed" and "useful" rather than expecting to use them frequently. If you are expecting to be, or feel like, a spell-slinger--the Warlock is probably not for you.

3: Useless? Eh, probably not. Hex is good, but I dunno if it's so good as to be VITAL for anyone who isn't a Blade Warlock. There's some talk, here and there, about making a custom invocation (or just a Blade pact feature) that modifies Hex so it is more friendly to being a melee combatant, and is default for Blades (who really do need it, apparently).

All of that said? I don't personally like the design of the Warlock. It requires far too much system mastery (half the invocations are crap--never take an invocation that gets you a once-per-day spell!); it has too many "optional" elements that should be built into particular subclasses (for example, the invocations that require a particular Pact should just be PART of that pact, IMO); and its power is much, much too dependent on DM whim than I will ever be okay with, particularly when DMs in general at least have a *reputation* for being stingy about rests (and, in general, the consensus seems to be 0-2 short rests per day, which is one to two less than the designers planned for).

 

[JackOfAllTirades]

My advice is not to get too obsessed with all the optimizers telling you what you "have to do" with a warlock character. There's more than one way to make the class work.

If you don't want to get stuck spamming Eldritch Blast all the time, take the Blade Pact and grab some spells/invocations useful for melee. Your first instinct might be a great weapon, but a finesse weapon is also a good choice. Put some points in DEX and you'll have superior AC, Initiative and DEX saving throws too. Consider the Medium Armor feat and you'll have an excellent AC. Combo the Devils Sight and Thirsting Blade invocations with the Darkness spell and attack foes with advantage twice each round. I cast Darkness on my blade, then cast Blink; when my warlock blinks out between his turns, his Darkness field goes with him so his allies can see.

I'm not saying this is the best build or even an "optimal" one, but it works great for me and my group. I'm just saying you should experiment with other builds and don't get "locked in" to what the optimizers here insist is best, because you might miss out on the character that works best for YOU.

And don't forget, every single time your warlock levels up, in addition to any new spells/invocations you gain at that level, you can also retrain one old spell and one old invocation you don't use/want any more. Over the course of two or three levels you can practically re-design your whole character if it's not working.

 

[Ashrym]

I agree with pukunui.

I think warlocks are a blast and you can focus on control, and 2 short rest slots is great at low levels... but... in general it's one spell per encounter for a warlock and a lot of spamming eldritch blast or other at will abilities. Hex isn't as big a deal as some think because concentration mechanics remove it from play often so an easier encounter from controlling effects is completely viable as an alternative provided you pick up controlling spells with duration.

No matter how you look at it, you are likely casting a controlling spell first round followed by cantrips for the reminder of the encounter. Some like it and some don't.

A bard won't have the spell slots for one per encounter for several levels. Warlocks short rest recover is amazing at low levels. What you will find is that a bard knows more spells, particularly a lore bard, at lower levels for more choices in spell options plus has bardic inspiration. By 7th level or so the better skill options, broader spell selection options, and bardic inspiration there is more variety of choices than the warlock.

The bard won't be casting at the highest level available or have the at will options the warlock has. The bard also doesn't have slot recovery options like renewal, sorcery points, or short rest slots like other arcane casters have so rations spells a bit more. Damage is low for bard spellcasting.

Your decision should be based on variety vs spam and what you will enjoy.

Hope that helps.

 

[Katmandoo122]

Some good responses here. My $.02 is this: if you are into roleplaying your character, Warlocks can be very good. In a town or in a campaign setting, they can use a lot of their unique invocations to have a lot of fun and be critically useful to the party. They are the class I use when I need an NPC helper for a party because nothing beats being able to read anything or be a perfect disguise.

If you anticipate a lot of dungeon crawls, though, then they are less fun. You do not have to take EB, but you will. And then it might as well be a crossbow. I have not played a bladelock, though. That could be fun although you better know your fellow players because most will expect you to be a squishy caster and wonder why you don't have fireballs.

 

[famousringo]

To me, the fun of the warlock is how flexible the class is. The various pacts and invocations really allow you to tune how strong you want your character to be in the combat, social, and exploration pillars. The big choices come at level 1 and level 3, but there's a lot of room in the invocations for a warlock to shift and rebalance her role throughout her career.

 

[keterys]

I've enjoyed my warlock more than most classes. I'm the party face (good Cha + skills, many faces, beast speech, spells), scout (imp), crowd control (spells, repelling blast), and a solid damage dealer (more for some battles than others).

Hex's concentration requirement often kills it, since I want to do something else or it's hard to maintain concentration, so don't feel like you have to cast it.

Make sure to encourage the rest of the party to short rest. Influencing them to characters that like to short rest (shapeshifting druid, battlemaster fighter, monk, etc) is a good first step. Get someone to take the Healer feat, or do it yourself. If you're not getting to short rest every couple fights, it'll get a bit repetitive, but as long as the DM has enough encounters in the day, it should be getting repetitive for _every_ character.