How Gary Gygax lost control of D&D

[Sacrosanct]

Yeah, actually one of the people I asked to give this an advance read for me flagged this sentence, but I decided to keep it. I think the term "hobby gaming" had a slightly different sense than "gaming overall," though if you want to get real technical about what it meant in the 80s, I'd grudgingly agree that Parker Bros and Milton Bradley were Hobby Industry of America members, say. But I think it far more meant the kind of products you had to go to a hobby shop to get - model planes, miniatures, and so on. You didn't go to a hobby shop to buy Monopoly, you went to Sears. Today we don't have this concept anymore.

But the main reason why I kept it is that there was no one in the big toy companies that had the personal power over the industry that Gary Gygax wielded, and no one in those companies was a household name who appeared on TV and in magazines like People. His power came from who he was, what he had made, just as much as from his corporate position (which is indeed a point the article makes explicitly). How many people do you suppose could name a designer who worked for Milton Bradley or Parker Bros in the 80s?

So I don't think it's actually inaccurate, or hyperbolic. It is called setting the scene for a tragedy, in the old school sense.

I deleted my initial post anyway, because it really doesn't impact the point of the article. So sorry for that, and the use of strong language.

 

[kettite]

A fascinating read - I've long been interested in how things went down at TSR and this article provides some great detail and evidence to fill in a lot of the vagaries. The lack of bank risk management, the lack of genuine business management at TSR, the acrimony between the principles (Gygax, the Blumes', Williams)... this would make for a fine TV mini-series.

 

[Mark CMG]

Yeah, actually one of the people I asked to give this an advance read for me flagged this sentence, but I decided to keep it. I think the term "hobby gaming" had a slightly different sense than "gaming overall," though if you want to get real technical about what it meant in the 80s, I'd grudgingly agree that Parker Bros and Milton Bradley were Hobby Industry of America members, say. But I think it far more meant the kind of products you had to go to a hobby shop to get - model planes, miniatures, and so on. You didn't go to a hobby shop to buy Monopoly, you went to Sears. Today we don't have this concept anymore.

I think the sentence is fine and that we very much still have that today. In some ways more so than back then. In the early 70s, I used to pick up my Avalon Hill games (and, later, SPI games) at any number of mainstream department stores (Sears, Woolworth, etc.) if I couldn't get it at a Hobby Shop. One looks these days at the struggle it has been for SJG to get Munchkin on mainstream shelves and it is very clear there is a divide between mainstream board games and hobby board games, or indeed any hobby games, board or otherwise.

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

If you have any interest in the history of D&D, you have to be aware of Jon Peterson's excellent work. He's got a new article up on Medium called The Ambush at Sheridan Springs, and it recounts, as closely as possible, just how Gary Gygax effectively got kicked out of his own company in 1985.

If I might make a small but important point, it never was his own company; he was one of several shareholders and rarely with control. And that's why they were able to kick him out.

Frankly, the TSR experience would make an excellent case study on the challenges faced by a company that caters to a fad as well as offering salutary lessons to any sort of entrepreneur.

 

[wlmartin]

If you have any interest in the history of D&D, you have to be aware of Jon Peterson's excellent work. He's got a new article up on Medium called The Ambush at Sheridan Springs, and it recounts, as closely as possible, just how Gary Gygax effectively got kicked out of his own company in 1985.

There is more to it than that but IMHO he was an icon and visionary that the world couldn't handle and because he was an ideas man and not a business man, the world took from him what it could and spat him out.

Its a chicken/egg situation because whilst him being born later and being part of our more creative generation would have been a great thing, the fact that is massive influence would have been missed could well have made this scenario impossible.

 

[evileeyore]

...he was an icon and visionary that the world couldn't handle ...

/spittake

 

[wlmartin]

/spittake

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not.. it doesn't appear you are

If you want to scoff at the principle instigator of the modern roleplaying game then have at it but I really cant understand why.


Bottom line, games we play now all pretty much evolved out of D&D and without that we would probably all be playing some variety of risk.
Without him there would have been no D&D and without D&D the shape of the computer game and board game world would be very different


That pretty much sticks him in the visionary category as far as I am concerned

 

[sgtscott658]

Interesting, 1st edition was around for 10 years (1975 to 1985), 2nd edition lasted around 11 years, then 3.0 lasted 2 years, 3.5 4 years and 4.0 lasted around 2 years. Basically we went from a hobby company to a corporate publisher. Gone are the days of a stable game system, within the last 10 years we have seen 4 new editions emerge. Is this a good thing? Probably not as people will fracture in the gaming community playing their favorite edition. Gygax wanted to keep the hobby strong and stable but with new editions coming out every 2 to 3 years from WoTC, that might not be the case. Heck, they are probably working 6th edition D&D as I write.


Scott

 

[wlmartin]

Interesting, 1st edition was around for 10 years (1975 to 1985), 2nd edition lasted around 11 years, then 3.0 lasted 2 years, 3.5 4 years and 4.0 lasted around 2 years. Basically we went from a hobby company to a corporate publisher. Gone are the days of a stable game system, within the last 10 years we have seen 4 new editions emerge. Is this a good thing? Probably not as people will fracture in the gaming community playing their favorite edition. Gygax wanted to keep the hobby strong and stable but with new editions coming out every 2 to 3 years from WoTC, that might not be the case. Heck, they are probably working 6th edition D&D as I write.


Scott

The internet, globalization, social networking, kickstarter etc etc has all led to us connecting to each other more and self-publishing is a reality.
In this day and age where all WOTC do is bring out a homebrew version of an already established game system, they arent likely to wow many people.

Pathfinder is an example of someone who did things write. They took an old system and didnt change things that much but have kept a successful product


After all the core concepts of the D&D system / D20 system arent proprietary and because of that the unique selling point of D&D is lost



However our community is still VERY small, we are as much in the mainstream as we can be but when you look at either official D&D youtube page or RPG youtubers, their subscription level is minute compared to people who natter on about pokemon or yugioh


The more they try and make money, the more they will develop interest in RPing and as long as you can side-step their corporate approach and cash-in on the indie developers who make solid games in the wake of WOTCs press attention, then your set!

 

[Nikosandros]

Interesting, 1st edition was around for 10 years (1975 to 1985)

1989, actually.

P.S.
Is that Chuikov of the 62nd Army (8th Guard Army after Stalingrad)?