How helpful is blindsense?

[Space Coyote]

I am playing a Druid character that has access to spells that allow Blindsense (Embrace the Wild, Spell Compendium, for example). The description of Blindsense states,

Other creatures have blindsense, a lesser ability that lets the creature notice things it cannot see, but without the precision of blindsight. The creature with blindsense usually does not need to make Spot or Listen checks to notice and locate creatures within range of its blindsense ability, provided that it has line of effect to that creature.

My DM is sometimes confused when my blinsense allows me to notice some things. Here are a few examples:

1) Invisible creature within blindsense range. No issue here. I am able to pinpoint the creature, but still have the 50% miss chance on attacks.
2) A stone golem (or something similar) stands in a room with stone statues. The DM determines a Spot check will allow the PC to determine that the golem is a creature as opposed to a normal statue. Would blindsense determine this automatically without the Spot check?
3) A plant creature mingled in with "regular" plants. A Spot or Knowledge:Nature check will identify the plant creature. Would blindsense determine this automatically without the Spot check? Or would this be considered more of a "knowledge" test.
4) Since Disguise is opposed by Spot checks, would blindsense see through disguises?

I am tempted to say "No" to 2, 3 and 4, because the quote above only mentions using Blindsens to "notice and locate" creatures. But would "noticing" a stone golem hidden amongst stone statues fall under that description? What about the plant creature?

Any input would be great.

 

[IcyCool]

2) A stone golem (or something similar) stands in a room with stone statues. The DM determines a Spot check will allow the PC to determine that the golem is a creature as opposed to a normal statue. Would blindsense determine this automatically without the Spot check?

I would say no. I might give you a +2 circumstance bonus on your spot check. I don't really see how blindsense will help you distinguish the golem from other statues. Were it invisible, you would know something was there, but you wouldn't know what it was.

3) A plant creature mingled in with "regular" plants. A Spot or Knowledge:Nature check will identify the plant creature. Would blindsense determine this automatically without the Spot check? Or would this be considered more of a "knowledge" test.

Again, this is sort of a "hiding in plain sight" type of deal. I'd give you the same results, assuming that the plant creature looks similar/identical to the plants surrounding it.

4) Since Disguise is opposed by Spot checks, would blindsense see through disguises?

No. Blindsense helps you detect where something is, it doesn't help you determine what something is. In your examples 2, 3, and 4, you already know where those things are. You just don't know what they are, and blindsense won't really help you with that. As an ad-hoc ruling though, I would likely give you a +2 circumstance bonus on the first two.

 

[Boondoggle]

I would say no to all but 1 also. Blindsense allows you to 'see' things that you otherwise couldn't. For 2, 3 & 4, your spot checks is opposed by a disguise check; you still see it, you just perceive it incorrectly. If the stone golem is trying to hide behind another statue, blindsense would detect it without spot checks.

 

[frankthedm]

BTW, do ask your DM about how this interacts with sleeping. Listen is usually -10 while asleep, but with auto sucess you may be practicly immune to being CDG'ed in your sleep.

Other creatures have blindsense, a lesser ability that lets the creature notice things it cannot see, but without the precision of blindsight. The creature with blindsense usually does not need to make Spot or Listen checks to notice and locate creatures within range of its blindsense ability, provided that it has line of effect to that creature.

 

[Kmart Kommando]

Actually, it is a normal listen check at a -10 penalty, so that skilled rogue sneaking up on you while you sleep isn't going to be at all bothered by your supposed auto success. Since it is an opposed roll, it's like he's getting a free +10 to his move silently check. Somewhere there are modifiers for moving silently to defeat blindsense. Don't fail your fort save.

Also, if the golem is trying to hide behind a statue, then you may not have line of effect to the creature and then blindsense wouldn't work at all.

 

[IanB]

I think I would be inclined to disallow using blindsense to find anything you can already see anyway.

 

[frankthedm]

Somewhere there are modifiers for moving silently to defeat blindsense.

Location please

 

[pawsplay]

I think I would be inclined to disallow using blindsense to find anything you can already see anyway.

Yes, blindsense is worse, not better, than a primary sense.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

Location please

I don't know about modifiers, but in Lords of Madness there is a feat that lets you use Hide against creatures with blindsight, blindsense, scent, or tremorsense.

 

[Sejs]

I don't know about modifiers, but in Lords of Madness there is a feat that lets you use Hide against creatures with blindsight, blindsense, scent, or tremorsense.

Dark Stalker.