How I Stopped Worrying and Learned To Love Standard Plusses

[comrade raoul]

My first reaction to the new Design & Development article on magic item slots and traditional plusses was common: I thought the expectation was really lame. Here's the quote for context:

We've preserved a number of items that have traditional “plusses.” These are the items we expect everybody to care about, and the ones that are factored into the math behind the game. If you’re 9th level, we expect you to have a set of +2 armor, and the challenges in the game at that level are balanced accordingly. Here are the primary item slots:

Weapon/Implement: Whether you’re swinging a mace or blasting with a magic wand, you have an item that adds to your attack and damage. These weapons also set your critical hit dice (the extra dice you roll when you score a critical hit, see the Design & Development article, "Critical Hits"). Even though this is called an item slot, that doesn’t mean you can’t wield more than one weapon, because that would make the ranger cry. 3.5 Equivalents: Weapons, holy symbols, rods, staffs, wands.

Armor: This category now includes cloth armor, so the wizard in robes has magic armor just like the rest of the group. Magic armor adds an enhancement bonus to your Armor Class. 3.5 Equivalents: Body, torso.

Neck: An item in the neck slot increases your Fortitude, Reflex, and Will defenses, as well as usually doing something else snappy. The most common items are amulets and cloaks. 3.5 Equivalents: Shoulders, throat."

But, after thinking for a moment I'm really happy with it, because the transparency of the system, and the logic behind it, provides a VERY straightforward workaround for people who don't like the "enhancement bonus treadmill" (getting increasing enhancement bonuses but having the game systematically expect you to) while preserving the fun for people who do.

Here's how: just give PCs steadily increasing, additional bonuses to their AC, saving throws, and attack and damage, directly proportionate to the enhancement bonus they're "expected" to get, and eliminate the enhancement bonus those items provide. Since we know 4e provides a standardized, level-based bonus to (presumably) all of those parameters already, you can just increase the rate. For example, if characters standardly gain bonuses equal to half their level, but are assumed to have enhancement bonuses equal to 1/4 of their level, just increase the standard bonuses to 3/4 of their level. (Thus, an 8th-level character who gets a +4 level-based bonus to attack rolls but who is assumed to have a +2 implement just gets a +6 level-based bonus to attack rolls instead.)

On this view, implements just just provide special effects, just like all the other 4e magic items. In effect, you're extending the paradigm for the "supplementary" items, like helms and belts, to everything else. A 10th-level fighter might just have a flaming longsword, not a +2 flaming longsword. Having a +1 longsword would just mean you have a sword with an enhancement bonus one better than you're expected to have for your level--which means that such a sword could be useful throughout a character's career. (A +3 longsword might be rare and precious for anyone!)

So you get an easy-to-implement, slightly-lower magic, high-flavor system--if you want it. Everybody wins!

(Obvious caveat: I'm not sure the rules will support this sort of thing, of course, but everything we know about them strongly suggests they will, doesn't it?)

 

[Irda Ranger]

Here's how: just give PCs steadily increasing, additional bonuses to their AC, saving throws, and attack and damage, directly proportionate to the enhancement bonus they're "expected" to get, and eliminate the enhancement bonus those items provide.... On this view, implements just just provide special effects, just like all the other 4e magic items.

I've suggested the same thing twice now in the 8-page (and counting) monster thread. The nay-sayers seem oblivious to the argument for some reason. Good luck with getting more traction here.

(Obvious caveat: I'm not sure the rules will support this sort of thing, of course, but everything we know about them strongly suggests they will, doesn't it?)

That's the conclusion I have come to. I just hope that WotC publishes their assumptions somewhere so we know precisely how much we need to boost plus-less PC's to keep the game running smoothly. They've admitted that 9th level assumes +2, but we don't have any other data points yet. Right now I'm going on the assumption of +1 per 3-4 levels, up to +6 at 20th level.

We do know that items have levels now though, so if +1 items are "4th level" and +2 items are "8th level" etc., that'll probably be our best guide.

 

[shilsen]

Here's how: just give PCs steadily increasing, additional bonuses to their AC, saving throws, and attack and damage, directly proportionate to the enhancement bonus they're "expected" to get, and eliminate the enhancement bonus those items provide.

Nice idea. I've actually already done this in 3e in one of my games, removing items and spells which provide enhancement bonuses to stats/weapons/armor, deflection bonus to AC, enhancement bonus to AC and resistance bonus to saves, and replacing them with level-based bonuses. So the characters are mechanically as competent as those with such items, there are much fewer changes to a character's stats due to buffing, and characters aren't busy filling slots with the Big Six items in order to be competitive and able to survive. It's a win-win proposition and I'm planning to do the same thing (modified to fit the system, of course) when I eventually run 4e.

 

[rkanodia]

Just want to chime in with support. I'm not sure that I am going to houserule away the +X weapons/armor/cloak - my gut instinct is that the removal of the generic "+X Enhancement/Natural/Luck/Sacred Bonus to Y" is going to be good enough. Still, removing the +X from the weapon/armor/cloak and just giving it straight to the character seems like a reasonable idea to me. Historically, my players would prefer to focus on interesting activated items rather than boring static bonus items, but the static bonus items have always won out in the end because they are simply so good from a mechanical standpoint.

 

[TerraDave]

Comrade, I thought the same thing. You could also make the adjustments on the monster side, ie adjusting down AC or hit bonuses.

With the item level article and this one, I think we already have a better idea of how magic items are supposed to work in 4ed then we did for most of 3rd ed. And that should make it easier to tweak them in different ways.

But we will see.

 

[Stoat]

I just hope that WotC publishes their assumptions somewhere so we know precisely how much we need to boost plus-less PC's to keep the game running smoothly.

I've always thought it was a great pity that they never really did this in 3.X.

 

[Anthtriel]

I think the naysayers have a point here: You can rule the +x boni of items away and instead give all characters the same enhancements, sure, but you could do the same thing in a 3E campaign, so where is the major improvement?

Now I realize that the system has been streamlined considerably, and house-ruling it, from what we know, will be a lot easier, there are a lot less expected items to compensate for. But it's also not the holy grail that some expected.

Others are only critizing it out of spite of course, but that isn't new and won't change.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Honestly, I'm fine with the standard pluses etc.

That's not what winds me up about the new system. It's the assumption of nine "slots" (which they even call "slots" I believe), all with their specific range of effects, and the fact that I am inevitably, puke-inducingly, going to see people whinging on about how for this "build" to work you need this specific item in that specific slot and so on and so forth until I finally start wondering why, if this sort of shiz is what D&D is about, I'm not just playing WoW.

I'll be particularly peeved, actually, if, for some unfathomable reason, you can only have on "miscellaneous" item or whatever it's called (the example given was a bag of holding). Oh well.

The "basic three" items I kind of like (except I'd much rather it was brooch/cloak than amulet/cloak myself for number three). The rest are the annoyances. Particularly as I was anticipating something a little less artificial and a little more organic.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Nice idea. I've actually already done this in 3e in one of my games, removing items and spells which provide enhancement bonuses to stats/weapons/armor, deflection bonus to AC, enhancement bonus to AC and resistance bonus to saves, and replacing them with level-based bonuses. So the characters are mechanically as competent as those with such items, there are much fewer changes to a character's stats due to buffing, and characters aren't busy filling slots with the Big Six items in order to be competitive and able to survive. It's a win-win proposition and I'm planning to do the same thing (modified to fit the system, of course) when I eventually run 4e.

Basically, Iron Heroes does the same. The lowest BAB is medium, and two classes even have a faster progression than 1/level (albeit only for their specific weapons). In addition, characters can get a lot higher starting ability scores (basically a point buy after which you add +2 to all scores). I think that's the primary "trick" how it manages to achieve that PCs without magical items can compete with monsters of their level.
(Sometimes I wonder if there was some "over-compensation", but it's hard to judge with a group of powergamers )

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Honestly, I'm fine with the standard pluses etc.

That's not what winds me up about the new system. It's the assumption of nine "slots" (which they even call "slots" I believe), all with their specific range of effects, and the fact that I am inevitably, puke-inducingly, going to see people whinging on about how for this "build" to work you need this specific item in that specific slot and so on and so forth until I finally start wondering why, if this sort of shiz is what D&D is about, I'm not just playing WoW.

Without slots, these people would just say "get item x, y z". "hey, that are all cloaks. Doesn't that look goofy" "Doesn't matter, there are now item slots like in WoW or Diablo!"*

As long as powergamers (like me) or munchkins (like every powergamers whose style I don't like) exist, you will end up with this discussions about which feat, skill, class, prestige class, or magical items will make your character more awesome then ever.


*) please add l33t speak as you see fit.