How important is it that a dungeon makes sense?

[Libramarian]

How important is it that a dungeon "makes sense", and what does that mean to you?

If it is important, would you still be able to enjoy a "nonsensical" dungeon if its nonsensical because it exists in a dream or in an afterlife limbo of some sort?

 

[delericho]

Depends how blatant you're being about the dungeon not making sense. If you present a standard orcish lair, but somehow forget the latrines, I'm probably never going to even consider that the dungeon doesn't make sense. By contrast, if you present a standard orcish lair, except that every room turns gravity through 90 degrees, then I'd expect you to explain that at least to the DM.

Assuming we're talking about the latter case, then I expect a dungeon to make sense, except where it makes sense that it doesn't make sense. So, place your dungeon on the Plane of Dreams, and you can do whatever you want - it makes sense that it doesn't make sense. Have the whole thing possessed by the insane remnant of the dead god, and you can do whatever you want - it makes sense that it doesn't make sense.

But present a clearly nonsensical dungeon without such an explanation (presented to the DM - of course, the players may never learn the secret), and I'll reject it. Because not only does it not make sense, but it doesn't make sense that it doesn't make sense.

--

If, by contrast, we're dealing with the less blatant non-senses (such as our orcish lair with no latrine), then that's really not all that important. If I spot it, it's a mark against your dungeon, but it's a long long way from being a deal-breaker. Indeed, if the rest of the adventure is a 5-star effort, a mistake of that sort really isn't enough even to drop it to 4-stars. Basically, it's like the occasional typo, grammatical error, or stat block snafu - it would be better if it weren't there, but it happens and I can live with it.

I hope that helps!

 

[jonesy]

Would a seemingly crazy dungeon that had an explanation for the crazy be a dungeon that didn't make sense if the party was never made aware of the reason?

Let's say a dungeon used be the lair of large burrowing animals. Thus the tunnels spiral around the area in seemingly random fashion. Then the burrowing creatures move away. Later a group of creatures that build stuff moves into the lair. Instead of even attempting to rearrange any of it they reinforce the tunnels with stonework. The lair now looks like a randomly generated dungeon. But it's not. But the adventurers going in there might never figure out why it's like that. The players might, if they ask the DM afterwards.

 

[Lindeloef]

The only thing that I really want from a "make sense" Dungeon, is that the theme of inhabitants is consistent (= it makes sense these creatures live together).
Like no Unicorn-eating Troll living one door away from a troll-slaying unicorn.

 

[Nagol]

The tunnels/chambers may be constructed in a seemingly nonsensical fashion with switchbacks, dead-ends, multiple connections, et al., but the builders should take advantage the best they can with the layout provided -- Important stuff/beings in protected areas, groups with need for external access near the entrances, etc.

In answer to the original question, making sense is important if you expect the players to be able to make consequential choices based on observation and extrapolation. It also helps me as DM when I need to provide further detail or evolve a situation in response to the PC action. The less sense to an area, the less the PCs can do to anticipate or apply strategy to their actions.

Nonsensical areas can be fun in kick down doors kind of way or if the session isn't focused on exploration play.

 

[Grydan]

A dungeon that "makes sense" would be a smallish one-room chamber with thick walls and a single access point—either a heavy door or a hatch in the ceiling—and would be a thoroughly boring place to have an adventure in. The only monsters would be rats, lice, and other small vermin.

So no, having dungeons make sense isn't particularly high on my list of priorities, either as a player or DM.

In more general, less getting-stuck-on-proper-definitions terms … for me, as a player, fun trumps 'makes sense'. If you can come up with something that both makes sense and is fun, then great. If not, I'll take the fun.

That said, I'll still be tempted to point out when a structure is utterly absurd in its layout, or contains a mix of creatures who really shouldn't be cohabitating. Arguably that's part of the fun.

 

[Minigiant]

They don't. Crazy dungeons with crazy design and a different monster in every monster in every 3 rooms are silly.

But it only matters if the PCs are supposed to make sense of the world and exploration is a focus.

This is why all of my "dungeons" are abandoned ruins or towers of dead wizards and losr organizations. The wizards/cults/dragons/groups brought the monsters there, disappered, left a nice place to savages and beasts to sleep in.

Old adventurers who leave society to not be cogs in the political games of thrones, titles, and coins. Build up a tower or stronghold a fill it with men and beasts under they control to deter kings and nobles who wish to see them fight for them in wars.

Then they die. The men flee. The beasts live unchecked. Savages squat. And the new inhabitants make changes.

 

[delericho]

Would a seemingly crazy dungeon that had an explanation for the crazy be a dungeon that didn't make sense if the party was never made aware of the reason?

Let's say a dungeon used be the lair of large burrowing animals. Thus the tunnels spiral around the area in seemingly random fashion. Then the burrowing creatures move away. Later a group of creatures that build stuff moves into the lair. Instead of even attempting to rearrange any of it they reinforce the tunnels with stonework. The lair now looks like a randomly generated dungeon. But it's not. But the adventurers going in there might never figure out why it's like that. The players might, if they ask the DM afterwards.

In such a dungeon, unless there was a specific reason not to do so, I would generally just tell the players while they're investigating the place. Just like I'll generally tell them the name of the creature they're fighting, or unrelated bits of information from the adventure backstory, or... In general, I take the view that there's no benefit in keeping that information secret "just because" - it's more interesting if the players do get to know these things.

But YMMV, of course.

 

[Li Shenron]

How important is it that a dungeon "makes sense", and what does that mean to you?

It depends on my mood and the type of campaign, but generally it's not very important.

In the average game of D&D, I expect a level of sense that is enough to hold the adventure together. For example, if a location has a small entrance only and inside there's a huge dragon and no other exits, this can be irritating, because there is a very good chance that the players would think the dungeon or cave continues forward, to somewhere from where the dragon came in. This is an example of gross nonsense. You can still have a magical explanation for this, but it's another matter.

But even a gross nonsense can be of marginal importance in a certain type of very old-school game of D&D, where it hardly matters at all that things make sense, and the level of simulationism is near zero, and the PCs might literally move from one room to another to find the next monster, without worrying how they stay there without interacting the monsters next room. That doesn't make those games unenjoyable, but they do require to just focus on the single challenges and not on the sense.

I honestly don't care for accurate dungeon ecology or layout. If they are accurate then great, but usually I'm hardly paying any attention on whether the place is properly plummed... General sense is enough for me, but the level of details required depend on the players, because whether the orcs have a toilet or not becomes relevant only if the players are of the type that are going to make something out of this kind of information to improve their tactics or advance the story.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Very. Just like everything else.

If there's some extended underground space with partitions, obstacles, and inhabitants, there had better be a good explanation for who built it and why it is this way now. Which is why I tend not to use dungeons; they're hard to justify (and they're huge time-wasters). I used to do dungeoncrawling where the need for kind of baic logic was not infrequently abrogated and it's not something I have any desire to return to.

Things making sense is really the main criterion for evaluating a DM.