How Important is Magic to Dungeons and Dragons? - Third Edition vs Fourth Edition

[Kask]

although it is notable that the guy who did the archery stunts for Errol Flynn's Robin Hood could reliable and on demand shoot two arrows, using the second to knock the first out of the air.

Check this out. YouTube : The Sling Shot Man - Amazing Marksman - Mixx

 

[Hussar]

/snip
As Robert E. Howard depicted him, Conan was thoroughly human -- not an absurd superman to raise as an example in support of the revisionist argument. To invoke pastiches and bowdlerizations, comic books and B movies, is not a tactic likely to inspire assent from fans of classic sword-and-sorcery literature.

Yeah, because normal people can be crucified, hung from a cross for an entire day in the desert, ride the beam all the way down when someone comes along and cuts down the pole, pull the spikes out of his own hands and feet by himself, all after having been savagely beated earlier that day, and THEN, hop on a horse and ride at a hard gallop for several hours.

All without suffering more than a few weeks of rest and some scars.

Yeah, thoroughly human.

((In case you've never read it, check out Howard's "A Witch is Born" for that little escapade.))

 

[Hussar]

Check this out. YouTube : The Sling Shot Man - Amazing Marksman - Mixx

Yeah, but in the Errol Flynn movies, they used hollow arrows made of bamboo.

Check out the Mythbusters take on the thing.

Ariosto, if you're able to split arrows a third of the way down, well done you. I shot competitively for about five years, and have done kyudo here in Japan for the past seven, and I've never once seen an arrow split by another arrow. I have seen the ends of arrows blown apart by the impact of other arrows, but, I've never seen one split down the length like the myth.

 

[BryonD]

Um.....No?

I am claiming that, if Beowulf stays three days under water, then either the water is magical or Beowulf is using a magical effect.

Robin Hood couldn't reliable and on demand split a clothyard shaft, although it is notable that the guy who did the archery stunts for Errol Flynn's Robin Hood could reliable and on demand shoot two arrows, using the second to knock the first out of the air.


RC

You are arbitraily rejecting the stories and imposing your own modification.
I'm not interested in your version, nor in my own version, I'm interested in the popular culture version.

And I got no beef with it being that way in your game. That is cool.

But I will stand by the position that there is ample room for larger than life heroes, who can do things truly impossible in real life, completely without magic. And further, that common fantasy fiction is full of these and it is quite a shame to reject them out of hand.
To be sure, great campaigns and settings are in a large part defined by their differences, not their conformity. But, I think it is vauleable to start from the expected and build in special understandings from there. So keeping them straight is of value.

That's my opinion.

 

[BryonD]

Robin Hood's adventures, in the (20th century) form in which we have widely received them, form an epic. It is a myth of heroic instauration. Were Robin merely a man, pursuing a man's ends, fantastic feats would make no more than a cartoon-like "tall tale". The magic lies in his instrumentality.

Lets make this simple:

Go walk up to someone on the street and ask them if Robin Hood used magic.

Let me know their answer.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Yeah, because normal people can be crucified, hung from a cross for an entire day in the desert, ride the beam all the way down when someone comes along and cuts down the pole, pull the spikes out of his own hands and feet by himself, all after having been savagely beated earlier that day, and THEN, hop on a horse and ride at a hard gallop for several hours.

All without suffering more than a few weeks of rest and some scars.

Yeah, thoroughly human.

((In case you've never read it, check out Howard's "A Witch is Born" for that little escapade.))

Thats pretty darn tough, not exactly an example of what a human can realistically withstand, but then you check out how badass Rasputin was in real life and the fiction doesn't seem so far stretched beyond reality.

 

[Raven Crowking]

You are arbitraily rejecting the stories and imposing your own modification.

Not so far as I know. What part of Beowulf are you suggesting I am rejecting? What part of the legendary Robin Hood?

You say you are "interested in the popular culture version" but I'm not at all sure what is "the popular culture version" you refer to. For Beowulf, does the animated film trump the original work to you? If so, we are not on the same page. Does Kevin Cosner trump Errol Flynn or Sean Connery as Robin Hood? Again, if so, we are not on the same page.

But I will stand by the position that there is ample room for larger than life heroes, who can do things truly impossible in real life, completely without magic.

And I will stand by the position that the "larger than life hero" who does something "truly impossible" is, by definition, performing magic.

Of course, the twin position is that lots of folks have very little idea of what is truly impossible in life.

For example, in the Mythbusters episode about the Errol Flynn Robin Hood movies, the conclusions was that they thought they used hollow arrows made of bamboo, but they also showed footage of the trick shooter performing tasks that were pretty amazing, and they couldn't say for sure exactly how it was done.

That was actually a great episode.


RC

 

[BryonD]

Not so far as I know. What part of Beowulf are you suggesting I am rejecting? What part of the legendary Robin Hood?

And I will stand by the position that the "larger than life hero" who does something "truly impossible" is, by definition, performing magic.


RC

Same answer for both questions.

Walk up to a random person and ask them if Robin Hood used magic.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Thats pretty darn tough, not exactly an example of what a human can realistically withstand, but then you check out how badass Rasputin was in real life and the fiction doesn't seem so far stretched beyond reality.

*Shifty eyes* Someone mentioned Rasputin *Shifty eyes*

Breaks out into song:
"RA RA RASPUTIN
Lover of the Russian queen
There was a cat that really was gone
RA RA RASPUTIN
Russia's greatest love machine
It was a shame how he carried on"

 

[Raven Crowking]

Same answer for both questions.

Walk up to a random person and ask them if Robin Hood used magic.

I walked up to a random person and asked "If I could split an arrow down the shaft with another arrow, consistently and on demand, would that be magic?" The answer was Yes. EDIT: After some sort of con or trickery was eliminated.

I walked up to another random person and asked "Could Robin Hood split an arrow down the shaft with another arrow, consistently and on demand?" The answer was "I thought that was supposed to be a once-in-a-lifetime shot" or words to that effect.

What did I prove?


RC