How Important is the D&D Brand?

Is the brand identity of Dungeons and Dragons something other games should be targeting?

Is the brand identity of Dungeons and Dragons something other games should be targeting?


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So You're Going To Sneeze.

Do you reach for a kleenex? A Tissue? A Puffs?

I'm betting that you do so in roughly that order. Most people will say kleenex (leading brand name), others will use tissue (generic term). And a few stubborn, difficult folks will say "puffs", mostly expecting to be misunderstood so they can vent a little spleen.

What The Hell Are You Talking About Kleenex For?

We are in the middle of a really interesting period for our hobby -- probably more interesting in the long run than the original boom in 3rd party publication that followed the d20 Open License release.

The dominant brand -- Dungeons and Dragons -- has been essentially on a re-design hiatus for over a year and a half. They're still out there, developing products that use the IP like board games and computer games. They're working hard to be open and stay engaged with their existing fans through the monumental open playtest program. But for quite some time now they haven't really been pushing their core product.

This has created a window for other products. Some were already well established -- Pathfinder, which was born in the sturm und drang over the 4th edition release, is probably the most significant. Paizo's product quality has been the standard by which all others are measured for a long time, and their evolution of the d20 ruleset is no exception.

But this past year or so has given rise to many other games that I think could have been easily ignorable in other circumstances. Clearly, the rise of the Kickstarter RPG engine has roared into the D&D vacuum, and systems that might have been minor boutique products like FATE have exploded onto the scene and have developed audiences they might not have dreamed of just three years ago. Other games that have been around for a while are also getting a bump in the D&D break -- Savage Worlds, for one, seems to be coming on strong on many fronts.

The interesting question, though, is how much does that all matter to D&D? With the D&D Next fallow period coming (eventually) to an end, will D&D come back from it's walkabout and return to it's top dog position? Or are the other games, other publishers, becoming viable contenders for the top spot?

Another Brand Example

Think about this: In conversations with people who are not gamers, which gets the point across more quickly -- "Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game" or "World of Warcraft"?

It's World of Warcraft, hands down. And even today, when the market dominance that WOW had years ago has eroded substantially, it's still the descriptor that has the cultural capital to mean MMORPG better than the actual term does (at least to outsiders).


Beating the Brand

Imagine someone who has never played RPGs before. She likes Star Wars, thinks Avengers was awesome, likes board games like Risk and Settlers of Catan, but that's as far as she's gone.

So, you tell her "Vin Diesel, Wil Wheaton, and Dan Harmon play Pathfinder." Does that mean anything to her? How about "Vin Diesel, Wil Wheaton, and Dan Harmon play Dungeons and Dragons"?

The difference is the power of the D&D brand. The vast audience of non-geeks out there has heard of Dungeons and Dragons. Their perceptions D&D are probably silly and wrong to our ears, but at least they know what it is; there's cultural capital there that these other games simply don't have.

When you come right down to it, when it becomes time to explain a non-D&D game to an outsider, we probably need to mention D&D as starting point.

Now, I'm not a member of the staff of any of those other games….but I imagine that must get pretty galling after a while. Anyone else trying to take over the mindshare that D&D has is facing 35+ years of brand recognition, recognition reinforced by TV shows, movies, books cartoons, board games, comic books, and probably a breakfast cereal.

But Does It Matter?

The brand dominance of D&D isn't a bad thing -- even if your first choice RPG isn't Dungeons and Dragons. It's a reality that puts D&D in a position the other companies don't need to be in, however. For a long time now they have been the primary recruiters for the hobby.

Their sheer size, and their need for a large audience, has meant that they have need a flow of new players and new customers that they can't get by stealing them away from other games. (DDN seemed, at first, to be a bid to try to change this reality and try to win players back; I'm not so sure of that anymore).

But for a long time, I have felt like that's okay, because the other brands have been able to create their own audience by grabbing D&D players away from D&D. Someone who wants more story flexibility from D&D might discover FATE. Someone who wants faster action or wider variety of settings might discover Savage Worlds or GURPS. Someone who loves micromanaging might discover Rolemaster. Once you've been brought into the community there are games for every taste.

The question the #2, #3, or ambitious #10 games out there need to answer is Can We Compete For D&D's Position as the Gateway Game? And Do We Want To?

And if we want to, HOW?

Sidebar: Is there a Risk for WOTC?

When a brand becomes the generic term for the product, there are grave risks for the company with that brand. It's vitally important to defend the brand name, because once the brand becomes that generic descriptor (aka a Generic Trademark) the company may lost the ability to trademark their brand name.

So, It's actually important for the WOTC brand managers -- while keeping the Dungeons and Dragons brand on top of the heap -- from becoming the generic name for the heap of RPGs. They should cringe at the idea that their brand name is used when we talk about our hobby -- despite the fact that it remains the most clear way of communicating what we do to people who aren't part of the community.

They've got nearly 40 years of brand identity behind them, but if they aren't careful, they might lost the ability to control it. And that's why you'll never see a WOTC staffer use the term "Dungeons and Dragons" as a collective term, the way I'm arguing the general public might.

Back To Beating Them

For more than a year Pathfinder has been outselling D&D. That's not much of a surprise to anyone -- D&D's primary delivery method had become online via subscription, and they haven't been selling much except reprints of old editions for a while now.

When D&D comes back, they're going to roar back into the stores and it's going to be interesting to see if Pathfinder can remain on top. It's also going to be interesting to see if Wizards continues the subscription model for the game. I'd bet they do, but anything's possible. Maybe they'll just run the whole thing through Facebook. Everybody loves Facebook.

Any game property that really wants to try to compete for that brand recognition -- especially in the awareness of people who are outside the hobby -- needs to be creating that awareness through non-rpg IP.

Take a look, for example, at the way Defiance is both an MMO and a TV Show. The MMO is getting far more attention that it may deserve because people are also interested in the TV show. Can you imagine a similar tie-in show on SyFy for Pathfinder? A live-action show called "Pathfinder Society" about an adventuring company? Heck, I'd watch that, even if the effects and writing were Sharknado-level bad.

What do you think? Should companies like Paizo try to compete for that brand identity space in the general public?
 

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Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
That's exactly what I was trying to get at with the Kleenex/Tissue comparison -- to outsiders, D&D is to RPGs as KLeenex is to Facial Tissue.

Ah, but you see, there's one major difference.

With Kleenex/tissues, there are no "outsiders". Everyone needs to blow their nose on occasion.

With D&D/RPGs, only outsiders use the term D&D to mean RPGs in general (and, honestly, the ones that do that don't actually know what it is, beyond a thing nerds do, and maybe dice and elves are involved). But, those outsiders have zero market power - they aren't customers!

Given that, even today, I'm pretty sure the driver of the D&D market is an apprentice system, where someone who knows the game brings you into the game, I don't see as how having the D&D brand be the common terms is really an issue.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Man, do I apologise for any part I might have had in the whole "this is what we call X where I live" thing! I guess maybe I helped start it, and I know it was the third most tediously repeated conversation on the web back in 1992. If I made it happen again today, I apologise most profusely!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Radiating Gnome

Adventurer
Man, do I apologise for any part I might have had in the whole "this is what we call X where I live" thing! I guess maybe I helped start it, and I know it was the third most tediously repeated conversation on the web back in 1992. If I made it happen again today, I apologise most profusely!

Pretty sure I started it.

But I'm not sorry! Bwa-ha-ha-ha!!

-RG
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
After 20+ years of the internet, that can't possible be of interest to anybody any more, can it? Surely not!

Well, in this case, there is a question of whether there's some market power associated with who uses the term how.

Yes, it is a fiddly bit. We are gamers. Most of us live for fiddly bits of one kind or another :)
 

Nikosandros

Golden Procrastinator
It must also be a country thing. Here in Italy, I've never heard someone use D&D as a "generic" name. Either someone knows what an RPG is or they have never heard of D&D either.
 

Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
Ah, but you see, there's one major difference.

With Kleenex/tissues, there are no "outsiders". Everyone needs to blow their nose on occasion.

With D&D/RPGs, only outsiders use the term D&D to mean RPGs in general (and, honestly, the ones that do that don't actually know what it is, beyond a thing nerds do, and maybe dice and elves are involved). But, those outsiders have zero market power - they aren't customers!

Given that, even today, I'm pretty sure the driver of the D&D market is an apprentice system, where someone who knows the game brings you into the game, I don't see as how having the D&D brand be the common terms is really an issue.
`

yeah I think this is the major thing DnD is the big fish but it is in a very small niche pond. Anybody in the RPG market is relatively informed enough to know both DnD and PF and GURPS and even FATE. Generally brand is of less importance to informed buyers.

Outside gamers RPG books compete with boardgames, consoles, online rpgs and even comics. Fantasy as a genre is big but that doesn't mean more players even if the golden goose for Hasbro et al lies with direct tie ins to Lord of the Rings, Conan and Star Wars. Personally my first exposure was two plastic bullywugs and a carrion crawler but went from the red box to GURPS due to quality of the product and access rather than branding.

oh and nice article but personally I use tissues and tell my mother about the online game me and my son are playing (Pirates101 btw, not WoW).
 

In South Carolina, we use the term "Coke" for sodas and "Kleenex" for tissues.

I'm from California and do the same thing.

I've yet to start calling D&D "Pathfinder", but I would do the opposite as shorthand, admittedly giving short shrift to Paizo. Paizo's definitely benefited from the brand boost of D&D (and Dungeon & Dragon magazines) but I don't expect they'll ever match D&D's name recognition if D&D remains reasonably well managed. It may yet be possible to pull a "New Coke" with D&D; and [diaglo] some might say they already have [/diaglo].
 

A

amerigoV

Guest
`

yeah I think this is the major thing DnD is the big fish but it is in a very small niche pond. Anybody in the RPG market is relatively informed enough to know both DnD and PF and GURPS and even FATE. Generally brand is of less importance to informed buyers.

Perhaps its the definition of "informed", but there is a significant amount of brand loyalty with gamers. There are a large number of threads on other game's boards (well, I can attest to Savage Worlds anyway) asking about how to get their group to even consider something other than D&D or Pathfinder. And until D&D "broke" for me at the end of the 3.x beginning of the 4e era, I was one of those people that had little use for other "brands" of games (except 3rd party support for 3.x).

Branding is always important, but the brand has to be supported with quality stuff. During most of the 3e era I would buy stuff sight unseen because the quality was constantly good (it of course dipped in the end to a degree). Anything in the 4e era is viewed with suspect, and not because I am 4-hater. I kinda liked the system, but the layout of the material is rarely evocative and the adventures were below even traditional D&D fair. Dark Sun in particular pissed me off (over 40% was just character crunch - I wanted a setting, not a rewrite of the system). I have started/seen threads here on ENWorld asking for the best adventures from 4e or stuff to get even if you are not a 4e lover and they come up very sparse on recommendations.

Now D&D is just a confused brand that I generally avoid as it tries to rediscover itself. That is bad because I am unlikely to even purchase the core 5e books whenever they actually make them. Their track record on modules has become very poor (I would gladly pick up good adventures as they are easy to covert to Savage Worlds, my goto system). I suspect they will not do any new game worlds, just refreshing FR yet again (one thing that kept me in 3e longer was the release of Eberron). In short, D&D used to be a brand I would pick up with just a glance at the topic. Now D&D means "tread carefully" until such time it proves itself of value again.

That "buy sight unseen brand loyalty" is now with a couple of Savage Worlds related companies. Pinnacle (Savage Worlds rules and settings like Deadlands, 50 Fathoms, Solomon Kane, and others), Triple Ace Games (Hellfrost, Hellfrost Land of Fire, Necropolis, Pulp, and others), and Reality Blurs (Realms of Cthulu, Iron Dynasty) are automatics with some others in the running. Now I also realize that because I am off the D&D/Pathfinder (the game system) road that I might never get back on. That may be more of a target market drift - my family situation is such that buying tons of crunch books is not the best use of my gaming dollar and Savage Worlds is targeted for people just like me. But the damaged D&D brand is what started it - my family is what is finishing it :)
 

Desh-Rae-Halra

Explorer
As far as Brand recognition, D&D is a generic sort of way to give an example of a tabletop Role Playing Game ( so people who dont know right off the bat dont confuse it with Warcraft, Magic: The Gathering, etc.

In terms of D&D, 4th Edition was their "St. Anger". I think the ball has been passed to franchises like Pathfinder, as well as 13th Age. For me, D&D really fell from Iconic Role-Playing Game to just another High Fantasy system and setting. The name persists, but only as a generic point of reference.

I find myself not even caring what D&D Next is going to look like.
 

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