D&D (2024) How long should a Short rest be in 5E(2024)?

[tetrasodium]

Somewhere in the 5-15 minute range. The important bit is that you should be able to take one after every encounter unless there's a very strong time pressure. Whatever it is, it's probably a good idea to scale other things that use non-combat time (e.g. rituals) to use the same unit. And most classes should have a significant number of things that recharge on a short rest, or at least have the option to do so. For example, casters in 13th Age get a certain number of spells per level, but the spells themselves can be either at-will, per-encounter, or daily, so you're encouraged to choose a good mix of them. Another nice example is the CRPG Divinity: Original Sin 2 (I guess 1 was similar but I haven't played that) where "skills" are balanced by having cooldowns of 1-5 rounds, so you can use them multiple times per encounter but not at-will.

The whole thing of attrition over the course of an adventuring day can and should go away, or at least be minimized.

Why? Seriously why the Heck should the gm be responsible for throttling ADEU style encounter powers in a long rest based adventuring day based system with "you should be able to take one every encounter"? If something should be at will it should actually be at will or get tied to a trigger throttled by the rules themselves (ie like the rolling initiative stuff). If something is too good for at will, the relevant class needs to be designed with a long rest based fuel tank &power scale".

This "it's too powerful for at will and the gm is at fault for not designing the entire adventure around throttling it hard enough if it becomes at will" is not at all reasonable design

 

[Staffan]

The biggest abuser is warlock, since they get two spell slots of the highest level from levels 2 to 10. In theory, if they were able to rest every combat, they would never suffer spell attrition. Having two fourth or fifth level spells every fight at level 9 is powerful.

Is it though? A 9th level wizard has 14 spells available over the course of a day (plus Arcane Recovery), including 1 5th and 3 4th level spells. And there are plenty of 1st through 3rd level spells that can still have a huge impact on a fight regardless of level: including but not limited to grease, shield, darkvision, blindness/deafness, blur, misty step, blink, fear, haste, and hypnotic pattern. Even with the warlock getting their spells off every fight, the wizard still has more endurance in a given fight.

And if a particular spell would be abusive if it could be cast many times per day, then maybe that spell either shouldn't exist, or at least shouldn't be a warlock spell (which is also an argument against power source-based spell lists). For example, the 5.0 warlock spell list pretty much doesn't have any strong AOE damage spells – no fireball or lightning bolt or even flame strike. There's synaptic static at 5th level, but that's a later addition and I'm not sure it was well considered. Some subclasses can get those, but they're not on the regular warlock list.

Additionally, the warlock is able to abuse multi-classing, particularly with sorcerers and paladins, to use their spell slots to fuel smite and sorcery points.

Then don't allow pact magic to fuel the shenanigans of other classes.

 

[Staffan]

Why? Seriously why the Heck should the gm be responsible for throttling ADEU style encounter powers in a long rest based adventuring day based system with "you should be able to take one every encounter"? If something should be at will it should actually be at will or get tied to a trigger throttled by the rules themselves (ie like the rolling initiative stuff). If something is too good for at will, the relevant class needs to be designed with a long rest based fuel tank &power scale".

This "it's too powerful for at will and the gm is at fault for not designing the entire adventure around throttling it hard enough if it becomes at will" is not at all reasonable design

Fighters should be able to use Second Wind and Action Surge every encounter, and Battlemaster fighters in particular should get to blow through all 3-5 of their maneuvers each combat. Barbarians should be able to Rage every encounter (so that should be a short-rest recovery ability instead of X/long rest). Monks should be able to blow through their ki in every encounter, and if that's too much they can have a smaller ki tank. And everyone should start each fight at full hit points.

Make the encounter the core element of the game loop and design the game around that. I fundamentally want each encounter to be interesting in itself, not as a measure of how many resources it took. Attrition is boring.

 

[FrogReaver]

The design of the warlock implies they expected them to always start a combat with those spells. Is there actually a problem there given wizards exist?

I don’t agree that was the intent for warlocks. It creates way to many high level slots being used in longer adventuring days.

I actually think the design intent for warlock was roughly 1 spell per encounter, which matches well with nearly all their good spells requiring concentration. This also meshes fairly well with 2 short rests being able to cover the warlock for up to 6 encounters.

 

[Incenjucar]

I don’t agree that was the intent for warlocks. It creates way to many high level slots being used in longer adventuring days.

I actually think the design intent for warlock was roughly 1 spell per encounter, which matches well with nearly all their good spells requiring concentration. This also meshes fairly well with 2 short rests being able to cover the warlock for up to 6 encounters.

So you think they gave them encounter powers on accident?

 

[bedir than]

So you think they gave them encounter powers on accident?

As the statements from the designers in the game and in their commentary don't support the idea that a short rest should happen after every encounter why should we assume a short rest happens every encounter?

 

[Incenjucar]

As the statements from the designers in the game and in their commentary don't support the idea that a short rest should happen after every encounter why should we assume a short rest happens every encounter?

How frequent are short rests supposed to be?

 

[MockingBird]

Fighters should be able to use Second Wind and Action Surge every encounter, and Battlemaster fighters in particular should get to blow through all 3-5 of their maneuvers each combat. Barbarians should be able to Rage every encounter (so that should be a short-rest recovery ability instead of X/long rest). Monks should be able to blow through their ki in every encounter, and if that's too much they can have a smaller ki tank. And everyone should start each fight at full hit points.

Make the encounter the core element of the game loop and design the game around that. I fundamentally want each encounter to be interesting in itself, not as a measure of how many resources it took. Attrition is boring.

I respectfully disagree. I feel that giving away a lot of at-will features takes away from the strategic values of game play. Betting when to use your features is part of the fun. I really hope 5e24 doesn't lean this way.

 

[tetrasodium]

Fighters should be able to use Second Wind and Action Surge every encounter, and Battlemaster fighters in particular should get to blow through all 3-5 of their maneuvers each combat. Barbarians should be able to Rage every encounter (so that should be a short-rest recovery ability instead of X/long rest). Monks should be able to blow through their ki in every encounter, and if that's too much they can have a smaller ki tank. And everyone should start each fight at full hit points.

Make the encounter the core element of the game loop and design the game around that. I fundamentally want each encounter to be interesting in itself, not as a measure of how many resources it took. Attrition is boring.h

That is not how those abilities are designed to function given their power limitations. If they were meant to be encounter powers they would be written as encounter powers with power level retuned to that frequency of availability.

What are you basing that "should be able to" on?

 

[bedir than]

How frequent are short rests supposed to be?

Roughly two-three a day. So about every other encounter.