D&D General How many air-blown waterskins are needed, if wearing metal armors, to prevent sinking in water?

[Oofta]

I can't. It's something I've never been able to do, much to the chagrin of several gym teachers. And I can lift my own bodyweight just fine on, say, a horizontal bar, but climb a rope? Nope, my hands just slide down.

A lot of this has to do with grip strength. It wouldn't surprise me if many children had a greater grip strength relative to their mass than adults do. But even then, ask any gym teacher how many kids can do this and I guarantee it's not 100%.

 

[greg kaye]

Its the same when DMs ask for Ability checks to climb a rope.

Something children (and military recruits) can routinely do. Something ANYONE who can lift their own bodyweight off the ground can routinely do.

Unless you're a morbidly obese or heavily encumbered PC and have a low Strength score (i.e your total weight of you and your gear is higher than your Max lift number) you simply lift yourself off the ground, and lock the rope in an S between your feet. Rest if you need to and repeat.

Small people have and advantage due to a high strength-to-weight ratio.

A "halfling" with half in all dimensions may have less strength (one-quarter by cross-section of their muscles) but they will have a lot less weight (one-eighth by volume).

This is why gymnasts tend to be small and, at a further extreme, why some really small things can jump relatively far.

It's one reason I like the Humblewood jeerbeen (mousefolk) race which can jump and retain 30ft movement.

 

[Willie the Duck]

a skin of air, with our physics, would just give 4.16

Reminder-- we are constrained to one significant figure (waterskins are listed as being 4 pints, not 4.0 or 4.00).

So your fighters don't go to gyms. What about your clerics?

I think you are missing the point. Here is some relevant discussion.

 

[Flamestrike]

Small people have and advantage due to a high strength-to-weight ratio.

A "halfling" with half in all dimensions may have less strength (one-quarter by cross-section of their muscles) but they will have a lot less weight (one-eighth by volume).

This is why gymnasts tend to be small and, at a further extreme, why some really small things can jump relatively far.

It's one reason I like the Humblewood jeerbeen (mousefolk) race which can jump and retain 30ft movement.

Literally every drafted soldier that's ever been in the US Army or Marines has been able to climb a rope reliably.

It's not like they get halfway through the obstacle course and there is a sudden train wreck at the rope section.

 

[Flamestrike]

Ask an adult to do the rope climb and I think most would fail.

I've been in the Army, and no, most people dont fail. Most people climb them reliably every single time.

You grab the rope. Lift your own bodyweight off the ground. Lock the rope between your feet in an S shape (where you can literally hang all day long, basically standing on the rope) and repeat.

A PC can lift (Str x 30) lbs off the ground. A Strength 10 Commoner PC can lift 300lbs off the ground. Unless he's morbidly obese, (or has a Strength of 5 or less) he can lift his own body weight off the ground, loop a rope over a foot, and repeat, reliably, and with next to zero chance of failure.

If you cant do it, it's because you have custard arms or you're obese (Your Strength score is less than (weight in lbs/30).

 

[Flamestrike]

Ive literally posted videos of 3 year girls in dresses reliably climbing ropes, and nerds in full Samurai armor, Chainmail or 10 kilos of level 4 armored plates in a plate carrier swimming, and we're still requiring Achillies to make Skill checks to do so.

This isnt even the 'Guy at the gym' fallacy. We're not comparing our heroes deeds to those of 'the worlds Strongest man'; we're comparing him to nerd gamer Vloggers, army draftees from all over the country and all backgrounds, and 3 year old girls and he's still coming up short!

 

[Clint_L]

As a former climbing instructor, I can tell you that more people have conceptual trouble with rope work than you might think. Absolutely they can learn it. But will a typical adult intuitively know how to climb a rope? Not in my experience. You'd be shocked at how many people have to be repeatedly reminded to use their feet while climbing. Especially big dudes - they always just wanna do pull-ups, and it's hilarious.

Edit: I absolutely don't allow players to use heavy armour underwater, unless it's armour of the mariner or they have a ring of free movement, or something like that. There's a reason those options exist!

 

[Edgar Ironpelt]

How would you rule this?

I'd require waterskins having a total encumbrance, when filled with water, to equal the weight of the armor. That should be quick and close enough.

So if the armor weighs 40 lb, and the standard waterskins weigh 4 lb each when filled with water, then my answer is 10 air-blown waterskins.

 

[tomBitonti]

In the posted videos, the rope is relatively stiff (and thick). Doing the same climbs with a flexible, freely dangling rope is a lot harder. Getting ones feet/legs around the rope is a lot harder if the rope is moving around -- because you have grabbed it with your hands. And getting your legs / feet wrapped in a thinner, flexible rope is harder.

While you get your legs around the rope you will have to hang on to the rope entirely with your hands. Moving to catch the rope will feed back through your hands and cause the rope to dance about, making it harder to catch.

TomB

 

[Oofta]

I've been in the Army, and no, most people dont fail. Most people climb them reliably every single time.

You grab the rope. Lift your own bodyweight off the ground. Lock the rope between your feet in an S shape (where you can literally hang all day long, basically standing on the rope) and repeat.

A PC can lift (Str x 30) lbs off the ground. A Strength 10 Commoner PC can lift 300lbs off the ground. Unless he's morbidly obese, (or has a Strength of 5 or less) he can lift his own body weight off the ground, loop a rope over a foot, and repeat, reliably, and with next to zero chance of failure.

If you cant do it, it's because you have custard arms or you're obese (Your Strength score is less than (weight in lbs/30).

You've been in the army with recruits that have to pass certain physical requirements and are likely in their late teens or early 20s. The gal climbing the rope? At a guess she weighs 120 lbs., the 3 year old likely a little over 30 lbs.. OCR training? Smooth wall for support, fully anchored and very thick rope being climbed by a 20 something that looks quite physically fit and climbing all of 5 feet. The gal? You think those biceps are typical? Really?

None of the videos are indicative of the general population. In addition, they aren't carrying other gear, they aren't already weighed down to the maximum they can carry while also climbing. Throw in the fact that climbing ropes are significantly thicker. As far as the kids climbing the rope, watch kids on a monkey bar. They have no problem because they weigh so little. Saying a little kid can climb a rope has no bearing on the general adult population.

Having said that, if a rope is anchored at the top and knotted for climbing, I don't ask for a check except under unusual circumstances.