D&D General How many air-blown waterskins are needed, if wearing metal armors, to prevent sinking in water?

[Flamestrike]

No, they can't. Because an "average healthy real-world human" is not an army or marine draftee,

That's precisely an 'average, healthy real-world human.'

You'll only get rejected from the forces (on physical grounds) if you're not healthy (so either a medical condition, or you're chronically unfit).

So (in medical terms) you're not healthy.

And, whilst it would be reasonable to suppose that an average D&D fighter is at least as capable as a modern military recruit,

Guy in the gym fallacy strikes again.

Your average D&D fighter is leagues above a dude in basic training in the Army. By T3/4 he's literally a character from a Marvel movie, able to be doused in magma or fall from the Empire State building and survive, or take on a literal Demon or a T-Rex with a hammer and win.

 

[greg kaye]

Guy in the gym fallacy strikes again.

It's really a "guy in the gym" point of reference.

Your average D&D fighter is leagues above a dude in basic training in the Army. By T3/4 he's literally a character from a Marvel movie, able to be doused in magma or fall from the Empire State building and survive, or take on a literal Demon or a T-Rex with a hammer and win.

Maybe. Maybe not. It's really down to the DM in relation to comparative, cross-world, levels of ability and how comparative references may or may not apply.

A standard 5e human with standard array with stats of 16 15 14 13 11 9 is a fair bit stronger than a commoner with stats of 10 10 10 10 10 10, but that's an average commoner. We might reasonably expect that guy/girl in the gym equivalent to be stronger.

 

[greg kaye]

I'd suggest that the guy in the gym would still struggle if wearing metal armour while in a large body of water.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

That's precisely an 'average, healthy real-world human.'

You'll only get rejected from the forces (on physical grounds) if you're not healthy (so either a medical condition, or you're chronically unfit).

Rubbish! You know why my dad was rejected? Colour blindness!

So (in medical terms) you're not healthy.

I'm medically perfectly healthy. But I still can't climb a rope.

Guy in the gym fallacy strikes again.

Your average D&D fighter is leagues above a dude in basic training in the Army.

Every D&D character is a fighter fallacy strikes again! The average wizard is more like the guy who has never been anywhere near a gym. D&D rules have to work for all classes, not just fighters. Thus, easy athletics check - typical 1st level fighter +5, can't fail; typical wizard -1, fails 30% of the time.

 

[Oofta]

That's precisely an 'average, healthy real-world human.'

You'll only get rejected from the forces (on physical grounds) if you're not healthy (so either a medical condition, or you're chronically unfit).

So (in medical terms) you're not healthy.



Guy in the gym fallacy strikes again.

Your average D&D fighter is leagues above a dude in basic training in the Army. By T3/4 he's literally a character from a Marvel movie, able to be doused in magma or fall from the Empire State building and survive, or take on a literal Demon or a T-Rex with a hammer and win.

Except you haven't been limiting your broad assertions to fighters. You're selecting fit young males in their late teens early 20s climbing rope that is several times the thickness of and far stiffer of than standard rope. Then saying anyone should be able to climb any rope.

Not sure why you don't see the issue here. A fit 20 year old male is not an average person. A strength based fighter, especially one not carrying any gear, should be able to go up a climbing rope with little to no problem. An old scholarly wizard who looks like Friar Tuck with an 8 (or less) strength climbing a regular rope not the super stiff and thick climbing rope? Not so automatic.

This is one of the weirder tangents that have come up recently.

 

[Umbran]

Apologies if you took it as an insult.

Mod Note:
Moderator notes are NOT an opportunity to explain yourself or double-down. Commentary on moderation in thread is something we generally don't allow - it is there in the rules of the site.

This goes especially with the non-apology of "I am sorry if YOU took it..." which does not admit your error, but instead places blame on someone else, which makes it not much of an apology.

With this kind of approach, I don't think we can count on you to not continue in this line in the discussion. So, you are out of the discussion.

 

[greg kaye]

Mod Note:
Moderator notes are NOT an opportunity to explain yourself or double-down. Commentary on moderation in thread is something we generally don't allow - it is there in the rules of the site.

It also causes distraction from the reasoning presented.

... A PC can lift (Str x 30) lbs off the ground. A Strength 10 Commoner PC can lift 300lbs off the ground. Unless he's morbidly obese, (or has a Strength of 5 or less) he can lift his own body weight off the ground, loop a rope over a foot, and repeat, reliably, and with next to zero chance of failure. ...

A PC can lift (presumingly with core body strength and by using their powerful legs) (Str x 30) lbs off the ground. I'd dispute that this applies to solely to Flamestike's reference to arm-use in lifting.

If the rope climber has the athletic ability to use their legs effectively in the rope climbing then I'd allow it.

(The thread is about swimming).

 

[Krachek]

if you paint the armor Gold you can have a Yellow submarine and sing the song while swimming!

 

[Umbran]

It also causes distraction from the reasoning presented.

Mod Note:
The moderator warning someone about commenting on a moderation post is probably a really bad time to do so yourself.

Use your heads, folks.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Since we have a simple calculation thanks to @Ancalagon and @greg kaye I thought I'd go on a slight rant so feel free to ignore ...

There's a video somewhere I found long ago where a guy (probably in his 50s or older) talks about armor and sinking. In it, he puts on a gambeson that was typically warn under armor followed by a full suit of chain mail. The gambeson basically acted as a life preserver and he could swim easily, although at a slow speed. Eventually the gambeson could have become waterlogged of course but in the short term no extra flotation devices were necessary.

Do what makes sense of course, but it's not that you're just compensating for a suit of armor, it's more complicated than that. The idea that you automatically sink like a stone if wearing armor is not that simple. Especially when it tends to get completely ignored for everyone but the guy wearing heavy armor. Swimming fully clothed, wearing a backpack, carrying some sort of weapon or quarterstaff and possibly a shield is anything but automatic. Pretty much everybody but a monk should have trouble with swimming unless they strip first.

Not only that, but historically people in pretty heavy armour - including plate - have swum across moats or similar obstacles by using floatation aids - usually logs of wood or the like.

I mean, I think you'd swim pretty slowly, but it has been done.