How many gods is too many gods?

Coroc

Hero
[MENTION=6855956]Plutancatty[/MENTION] #6 Forcefeed those deities you actually need for the ongoing campaign.

Example:

1. The Players raid a Dragon hoard : No talk about gods needed except those the Players pray to

2. The Players raid a big orc City and stumble across the temple district, maybe need to resolve a riddle there: Let them make Religion checks and introduce some or all of the orc pantheon (2nd ed Monster mythology will help you a bit)

In my latest session one of the Players (a fighter) wanted to buy potent healing pots and the temple of Farlaghn gave him a few for a tithe, and for him being converted to that faith, resulting in him wearing a holy symbol on his neck.
Later on in the session the player died by bad luck of another players die roll and was sent directly to Farlaghn who did resurrect him after some good roleplaying. It made sense i informed the player upfront that Farlaghn is a god of travellers and wandering, so he could rise again as a consequence of what he said to his deity during that RP challenge.
 

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TheSword

Legend
For my game there could technically be thousands of deities. There are the Old Gods followed by druids, witches, and rangers who are natural spirit deities. The man in the woods, the maiden in the river and so forth. There are the New Gods followed by priests, clerics, paladins, templars and sages. These deities are defined by emotions and actions. Love, war, farming and what not. The New Gods are "flavored" by various cultures and races. Except for the special star worshiping elves who have seven stars along with their heretical dark star followers.

Love the concept. I’m running something similar in my next campaign. My thought was that while the old gods seem less powerful they are extremely powerful in their more limited sphere or area. Also more personal; more likely to create avatars; or intervene in events they are interested in.

The new gods have legions of followers and are heavily influenced by events. Their followers are also more fanatical. For instance in my campaign the new gods are pulling a great and ancient empire into a conflict with a neighboring empire. The PCs, the church of one of the old gods, and a trading house have left the empire behind to set up their kingdom in a new wilderness (similar to Kingmaker).

Inspirations are Witcher 3, and American Gods,
.
 

S

Sunseeker

Guest
I'd cap things at 5. Keep in mind this is "five gods that matter", not five gods ever. Any more than that any people will stop caring. It might be interesting if that one town has a regional harvest festival to that one regional harvest god, but unless that's going to come up as something bigger than one line from an NPC of "Yeah we're having our regional harvest festival to Regional Harvest God." it's not worth detailing.
 

I tend to go with the idea that there are big pantheons out there, but only a few gods that adventurers are likely to be involved with, a few that farmers are likely to be involved with, a few that merchants are likely to be involved with, etc. Spend most of your effort on the ones the PC's will be involved with, and maybe thoroughly develop one left field one (like an orc god[dess] of agriculture) that you can totally mess your players' minds with....
 

TwoSix

Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
I usually prefer just a few gods, organised around an easily understandable concept. Like a "holy church of light" god/nature god/evil god, or gods for each season, or a god for each alignment. Barring that, hundreds or thousands of gods is good, so you get mystery cults, fanatics of a forgotten god, NPCs with weird powers from their god, and easy insertion of any new idea you come up with.

40-50 is kind of a "sour spot", where you have too many to easily remember, but few enough that each probably has a role to play and shuffling them around is problematic.
 

Vymair

First Post
I generally agree that you just need a handful. One point I'd make is that is important to find out what the cleric player is planning to play and figure out how their god fits in with whatever else you are going to need. Besides, the cleric's deity, it's ok just have the major ones nailed down and state there are many others and flesh them out with the PCs if needed.
 

steeldragons

Steeliest of the dragons
Epic
42.

Seriously, as others have noted, the players will never know or care about more than maybe 4 or 5 of them. Probably the one with the largest/most widespread religions of their homelands, whomever any cleric or other "divine" classes are following, the adversary/big evil the forces of whom they will likely find themsleves fighting against, and possibly 1 or 2 other general/"lesser" evils (usually in cahoots with the main big bad).

For my own homebrew world, there are tiers of divinities, as you describe (and often found in RW mythologies) but that doesn't mean all of these are all existing and worshiped all in the world at the same time.

There was One.
He created a partner. So they were Two. (They made the first dragons and the titans, who largely/mostly would devolve into giantkind).
They created the Primordial Ocean.
Then they left ("leaving Orea to Ossa's care...retired behind the Veil").

She creates the first primodial/elemental deities.
8 of them, the "Elder Gods," 1 of whom becomes the first/brings Evil to reality.
In the world, following plants and animals, these (largely the good 7) create Elves, Dwarves, Centaurs & other sylvan/fey creatures, Demons, Zepharim (at this point, the first one's immortal servants/messengers/"angels"), and eventually the First Five Tribes of Men.
In the heavens, they propagate and more and more deific beings come into existence, eventually generating entire armies of long forgotten entities of various power and perspective.
The Chaosbringer (the original Evil dude) through trickery and in some cases force, creates progeny of his own, and after imprisoned, learns to stretch his tainting influences into the world. His minions and creations make many monstrous creatures, races, and corrupt/turn many lesser deities toward madness, avarice, and cruelty.
One of the first tribes of men become the Druids. Some of the other tribes create various kingdoms and empires, some openly evil and/or demon-worshiping, eventually subsuming the entirety of the known world in conquest wars.
Eventually, seeing the coming destruction, the goddess of fate and death warns the responsible deities of the coming doom. The goddess of green growing things discorporates herself to create the Land of Faerie for her fae & sylvan "children" to have/seek refuge. Her mate, god of animals, passions, and the hunt, already falling to his baser instincts from the Chaosbringer's influences, goes mad with grief at the loss of his love and begins taking terrible vengeance on the mortal realms.

A group of the best among the gods and goddesses, seeing the impending destruction of the Creation over which they were to care and tend, rise up in rebellion against the majority of their -mad in their power or fallen to corruption- forebears and siblings. This is the Godswar.
Divine battles and worldly catastrophes reshape the known world.

After an Unknown time following the death or defeat of the majority of the wicked deities [the Lost Age]. A central 8 new deities arise as the victors, the best and most powerful stabilizing forces of good and neutrality. The Chaosbringer and chiefest of his minions -released from their ages of imprisonment in a deal of desperation to fight on the side of the rebels to defeat the mad gods, ironically saving the creation he so desires to destroy. The followings and religions of the deities of good and neutrality grow and spread throughout the world under a myriad of names, titles, and visages or facets.

They propagate as their creators did. To, now in the fourth age following the Godswar, 1 Elder goddess of good, 2 neutral Elder gods, and the Chaosbringer are the only Elder gods left standing. Following them, the 8 good and neutral deities who began the rebellion and the "court" of their, now, dozen or so children, grandchildren, and/or otherwise created "children." At the very bottom of the hierarchy, currently on the books, 3 known demigods.

So, I think I total up to something like just under 30 of existing currently active [most working at running and tending creation and the mortals within it, and several trying to bring it all down] divine entities.

NOW, that does not mean there are 30 religions or churches or every entity has its own temple and religious hierarchy. There may be far MORE or far LESS religions and cultural mythologies than that, using different names or aspects of a given deity, different cultures worshiping the same guy as a different entity/name/way. I don't currently have the religions all mapped out, but there is not -and doesn't have to be- a 1:1 deity-to-worldly-religion ratio, is my point.

For example: Astar, the Celestial Sovereign, King of the Gods [of good & neutral bents] is by far the most widespread religion and organized temple in scope and spread. Think a fantasy Vatican at the height of its power in the middle ages, but with a priesthood and hierarchy with actual magical [divine] power. Multiple branches and orders of scholars and priests, sects of paladins and "holy knights" providing a religious-military complex. He is worshiped/equated, somewhat mistakenly, with the Elder god and first divine ruler, Antas the All Mighty, Astar's divine sire who went mad in power and cruelty against the Creation over which he was to rule, and was slain by Astar (and his compatriots) in the Godswar. After the Godswar's conclusion, Astar was installed/ascended to his father's divine throne.

...in the desert empire of Thel, he is called "Arsha" and worshiped in their quartet of elemental divinities as the sky/air god. Still the gods' leader, most powerful entity, and chosen/preferred deity of the ruling class and their pharaonic divine emissary-king, but not the courtly ruler of the west and south.

...among the barbarian clans of the northern reaches -completely unbeknownst to them- Astar is "the Lion," Lord of beasts, honor, strength, and courage, totem of the Luun [lion] clan.

...assuming his dwarven aspect/visage, he is called "Toralon Kor," the Thundering Mountain, the Great Anvil, the chiefest deity of dwarves, an "All-father" figure, warrior-king of the dwarven pantheon, god of dwarvish law, honor in battle, noble & just leadership, and master of all dwarven craft.

...and so on. Many of the world's most powerful deities might be worshiped by any number of peoples in any number of ways.

As I said, I don't think I've ever had a player interested in learning more than a handful of them. And while they may come into contact with a wide variety of various temples/religions, there's never been much interest in mapping out who is actually being worshiped by whom outside of a player saying "I want a cleric of a Sun god." or "I was thinking a paladin of some Honorable warrior god" and me saying "Whaddaya know? I've got one of those! His/her name is..."

But you can make a thoroughly rich religious/mythological world with only 2 or 3 deities. I wouldn't say there's any such thing as "too many" but just for sanity's sake (and being able to provide at least a little color and flavor, every now and again even if your players aren't directly involved with them) I'd try to keep it between 20-30.
 
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cmad1977

Hero
Sooo, basically it's fine to have as many as I want as long as I don't force feed info on them to the players.

I’d say this sums it up. Your players will engage with whichever ones they lean towards. You can probably add a couple more to their plate if there is a conflict involved.
Could probably even have a couple of your more obscure ones central to smaller adventures.
But boring your players with massive pantheons is probably not a good idea.
 

Kobold Boots

Banned
Banned
General rule of thumb:

Once every storyline you're writing has to do with religious conflict, you've got too many gods. Since we have two thumbs there's a corollary.
Once your players stop thinking it's cool. You've overdone it.

As a person who can be obsessive and compulsive about gaming such that his worlds get too "done" I've generally just said

1. What's my story and what do I need to flesh out in order to tell it.
2. In areas of magic and religion where I tend to go crazy with detail, do one thing more with each system than you need to from point one, to cover when players go sideways.
3. In areas of combat, do one thing that makes my game different so players get a vibe that what they're playing is unique for now.
4. When players exhaust the stuff that's written to cover sideways, add one more thing.
5. Encourage them to develop their own plot in conjunction with the main story.

Move on.
 

In my own homebrew setting I've kept it rather simple, so my players can at least remember most of the deities.

I have three ancient evils, which are god-like in nature, and only worshiped by the villains.

I have one pantheon of good/neutral gods, 5 of which are referenced repeatedly in the campaign. Priests in my setting worship all of the gods in the pantheon, but only 5 of them are always prominently on display in every church. The other gods may have a small shrine/statue in a corner of the church; always represented, but depending on the church, other gods may get preferential treatment. For example, the goddess of love and fertility is only worshiped when people want to have a child, have marriage problems, or when a big festival is approaching. So, this goddess is not prominently on display, and the players have little interaction with the deity.

Lastly, some churches have a local saint, which the church tends to be named after. So you might have a St. Anna's Church, or a St. Germaine's church. These saints are only worshiped locally, but pretty irrelevant anywhere else in the world. I use them mostly to justify the name of a church, and to give a little backstory to its founding.

This raises the question, why have so many gods at all? For my campaign, I find it helps with immersion when an npc mentions a deity in casual dialogue. It makes the world feel more alive. But its not important to me that my players know the names of all the gods by heart. I'm surprised by how many they remember by name though. They know the goddess of the sun, the god of death, the god of storms, the lesser-goddess of sailors, the god of the moon, the god of trickery and the god of protection. That's a lot of names.
 
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