How (many ways) to describe "feint"?

[rankarrog]

This may be better in the General Discussion board, but anyways:

As you know you can use "bluff" in combat to make an enemy loose his/her dextery-bonus for your next strike.

Sooner or later "Hey! Look! It's Elvis! The King!" or similiar causes get boring and since I don't want to do the same bluff more than once or twice, what are your (hopefully more interesting) descriptions for a feint? Please give many. I need them.

 

[IceBear]

I don't think it's just "Hey, what's that behing you", but an intentional fake attack which - if the opponent falls for - leaves him vunerable. That's the reason why many people don't like feint being tied to "bluff" as an experienced fighter is probably better at feinting his opponent than a smooth talking salesman.

IceBear

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Feinting is a subcategory of Bluff.

A character with really fast reflexes (like Drizzt) could turn a feint into an actual attack, or turn an attack into a feint. That's part of having a high attack bonus... you may very well be feinting all the time.

A creature with multiple arms (like a thri-kreen) can also feint quite easily. It's difficult for a humanoid opponent to keep track of four arms all coming at him swiftly.

In real life combat, you're supposed to look at your opponent's eyes. So someone who can bluff well could look to the left and still swing to the right. That's why they only get one attack instead of a full-attack action [metagame- Bluff in combat is a full-round action]. However, his opponent may very well jump the wrong way and skewer himself on the blade.

You can bluff opponents in other ways, too..

DM: "Your opponent looks distracted."
PC: "Oh, an AoO? I strike. Okay, I roll..."
DM: "He skewers you, grinning wolfishly. You fell for his trap."

DM: "Your opponent's left leg seems to drag a little."
PC: "I see. I go around to his left side..."
[Not a meta-game action. Just description.]
DM: "His left leg straightens, he spins on it, drawing his sword against your belly. You weren't expecting it, so you can't dodge."

 

[Shallown]

It could also be described as a hard press or flurry of blows to draw a person's weapon off line and place them in a bad position.

Doing Bluff and having to wait a round to actually attack use to sound kind of screwed up to me until I pictured it this way and the way Severedhead described it. It just maybe a set up that takes a little while to reap the advantage to.

 

[sty]

Re-trying

Would it be harder or easier to re-try a feint in combat?

Two possibilities.

1- Sucessifull feint.

2- Unsucessifull feint.

Or it doesn´t metter??

 

[IceBear]

It could also be described as a hard press or flurry of blows to draw a person's weapon off line and place them in a bad position.

Doing Bluff and having to wait a round to actually attack use to sound kind of screwed up to me until I pictured it this way and the way Severedhead described it. It just maybe a set up that takes a little while to reap the advantage to.

It was mainly done that way so the rogue can't feint and sneak attack in the same round.

IceBear

 

[Shallown]

IceBear - Oh I know that. To make it a move Equivalent may have been better though perhaps too Better (Bad english I know).

Though at higher levels burning a move might balance it out with losing multiple attacks.

I was just thinking on how to describe or explain it.

I also think that Fighters not being able to do this effectively is wrong. Perhaps they should have left Feint out of Bluff and made a few combat Skills that do the same thing. This would let fighters have a few skills that they can use since several of their skills seem to be useless once you slap on heavy armor. I know that the penalties are balanced but it seems to be a wate of skill points of which they have very few.

Perhaps some skills like Feint, and bypass armor (no it wouldn't remove all the armor bonus just some), Roll with blow etc. I am sure there are lots of others more imaginative people could come up with but that is a house rules sort of thing.

And to Sty. I don't think it matters; unsuccesful the other person knows you tried something ( I would think) and the other He knows cause now thier bleeding all over.

Later

 

[0-hr]

I don't think it would matter how often you feinted. Say you are lunging in with your rapier and drop the point for a low strike. At that instant you either strike low or make that a fient and bring the tip around to strike high. Assuming you do the maneuver well (make your Bluff check), the opponent can't tell which option you are going to do and so must commit to blocking either low or high.

You could do this all day and (as long as you are suceeding at your skill checks) the opponent will still have just a 50/50 chance of blocking correctly. If they want to get better at anticipating your moves, they need to put some points into Sense Motive.

 

[IceBear]

I also think that Fighters not being able to do this effectively is wrong. Perhaps they should have left Feint out of Bluff and made a few combat Skills that do the same thing. This would let fighters have a few skills that they can use since several of their skills seem to be useless once you slap on heavy armor. I know that the penalties are balanced but it seems to be a wate of skill points of which they have very few.

I think some people have a house rule that you can use your BAB or Bluff (whatever is better) when you try to feint. I know that makes putting points into Bluff a little less necessary, but I wouldn't have an issue with it.

IceBear

 

[shurai]

I think feint is pretty different from that idea myself, at least in terms of D&D. I think of it as pretending to have your ankle broken on a rock, and when the enemy fighter goes to take advantage of your poor mobility, you dodge do the side on your 'broken' ankle and then bury your dagger in his unprotected side. This fits the definitions of Bluff and Sense Motive pretty well.

Since it's so easy to multiclass into rogue from fighter, (of the seven base races, four can be a multiclassed rogue/fighter without penalty and all of them can do it in a balanced way), and because they work so well together, I prefer to think of pure fighters as almost purely soldiers or knights or mercenaries, who have amazing training in combat arts but aren't used to fighting 'dirty.' So the kind of feinting they would be used to would be the kind that gets you a higher attack bonus after a few more levels.

-S