D&D 5E How much Warlord do you want?

[CapnZapp]

Yeah, Zapp's a little hard to suss out, at times.

..uh.. no offense, Cap'n...

I started a thread linking to a blog post which clearly states how 5E's treatment of loot is incomplete and inconsistent, in that
1) it still heaps tons and tons of gold upon adventurers. With Storm King's Thunder, this is as official as can be.
2) official modules take little to no downtime into account. Just like my players, the modules simply aren't interested in building wizard towers or managing thieves' guilds.
but not
3) provides a robust way of purchasing things useful for the adventure (i.e. "uptime") with all that gold

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?511752-In-fifth-edition-D-amp-D-what-is-gold-for

Like so many other threads, it was trainwreckd by the usual suspects, so excuse me if I can't assume they are arguing in good faith like you do. (I have discussed this many other times too. Without exception to have a select number of posters to derail the discussion, since apparently, any criticism of 5E is intensely unbearable to them). So if I'm a little hard to suss out in this thread, it is only because I try to limit myself to the absolute minimum of interaction when it comes to explaining these things.

Magic items do have a very different role in 5e

You say that as if it was true, and that nobody would think it a bad change.

In reality, there is nothing that prevents 5e's magic items to be used in the useful and fun role of providing players with useful outlets for all that gold they get.

Assuming, of course, WotC completes their promise of providing support for previous edition play, by publishing an utility-based magic item creation and pricing guideline.

would probably entail completely new lists of make/buy qualified items that are less game-disrupting/'make you just better' than 5e items (possibly down to the level of 4e items, even).

I have to completely disagree on all levels, I'm afraid.

For one thing, magic items was one of the worst aspects of 4e. They were interminably dull. I'm not only talking about the way their bonuses only let you keep up with the threadmill; they gave out a large number of minimal and situational bonuses, that was only a chore to keep up with. I frequently had to combine two items into one just to have my players pick them up, but in the end they rarely bothered using them. (4e character have plenty of buttons to press already, as you know)

No, 5e's items are items done right, and changing that would completely defeat the purpose of doing all that work on a new magic item pricing guideline. It is exactly the items of the DMG you'd want to offer up for purchase (and even construction).

In my not so humble opinion.

Give me that, and an "advanced monster manual" of tricked-out replacement Balors etc (somewhat like Dave2008's efforts, but perhaps just a tad toned down), to account for the extra PC power, and I would be a happy camper indeed

Again, apologies for the aside. Now back to your regular Warlord programming.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Like so many other threads, it was trainwreckd by the usual suspects, so excuse me if I can't assume they are arguing in good faith like you do. (I have discussed this many other times too. Without exception to have a select number of posters to derail the discussion, since apparently, any criticism of 5E is intensely unbearable to them).

I think I recall at least one of those.

You say that as if it was true

Yes. Well, benefit of a doubt, anyway.

and that nobody would think it a bad change.

Nah. I can't fake that much Pollyanna. I mean, I'm try'n to emote some optimism, but it's against my basic nature, so it's a stretch.

In reality, there is nothing that prevents 5e's magic items to be used in the useful and fun role of providing players with useful outlets for all that gold they get.

Except that said items make the character accumulating them 'just better' in a spiral of power inflation. Not that you can't cope with that if everyone's getting items, but it's a non-trivial consideration.

Assuming, of course, WotC completes their promise of providing support for previous edition play, by publishing an utility-based magic item creation and pricing guideline.

Yes. Which, it seems to me, would mean also publishing a list of items that'd be less problematic to use with such guidelines (nothing'd stop you from using existing, or lifting prior-ed versions of) problematic items, of course, but it seems like it'd be prudent to provide items to work with such rules.

I have to completely disagree on all levels, I'm afraid.

Wow, that never happens 'round here.

For one thing, magic items was one of the worst aspects of 4e. They were interminably dull.

They were balanced in the context of wealth/level guidelines and make/buy rules, yes. That's not disagreement, to be clear. Magic items were a character resource that didn't overshadow characters and could be bought by the bushel without wrecking the game. A bushel of anything's likely to get dull.

5e's items are items done right

Done right for 'special' and 'interesting' and 'character defining' and, yes, for DM Empowerment. But all that kinda precludes make/buy.

and changing that would completely defeat the purpose of doing all that work on a new magic item pricing guideline. It is exactly the items of the DMG you'd want to offer up for purchase (and even construction).

In my not so humble opinion.

If you want to evoke a Monty Haul feel, sure. I can see why they hesitated to do that.

Give me that, and an "advanced monster manual" of tricked-out replacement Balors etc (somewhat like Dave2008's efforts, but perhaps just a tad toned down), to account for the extra PC power, and I would be a happy camper indeed

Sounds like a viable option!

Better yet, put it all in one book. Powerful items, price lists to buy & rules to create them (and DMG items), and monsters that can actually take you on when decked out with them. Maybe a setting backdrop that wraps it together. A Golden Age of Magic supplement, perhaps? You could set it in any of those ancient empires wrecked by the Invoked Devastation or Rain of Colorless Fire or Enchanted Item Commodities Market Crash or whatever.

No, seriously (reading that back to myself it might come off as mocking, not how I mean it, though, y'know, little humor, I hope): color me convinced.

 

[Wepwawet]

I think I am very a very limited creature, because I really don't get the warlord appeal.

Just look at those muscles, that beard, and those tight trunks!

... wait, are we talking D&D class or the guy in the picture?

 

[Slit518]

Just look at those muscles, that beard, and those tight trunks!

... wait, are we talking D&D class or the guy in the picture?

We're on the D&D board, I'll let you decide!