How often does your GG "break" modules?

[hammerlily]

How often does your gaming group "break" modules? And when they do, is there any pattern to how/why it happens?

I'm a fairly new gamer, but I play with a bunch that have been playing for years... in fact their kids' have been playing for years.... and it seems that every time we play pre-written mods, we seem to break 'em.

Just curious how often & when this happens to others...

 

[Olaf the Stout]

How often does your gaming group "break" modules? And when they do, is there any pattern to how/why it happens?

I'm a fairly new gamer, but I play with a bunch that have been playing for years... in fact their kids' have been playing for years.... and it seems that every time we play pre-written mods, we seem to break 'em.

Just curious how often & when this happens to others...

What do you mean exactly by "break" them? Do they stroll through them without a challenge? Do they point out any plot holes that might be in the module? Do they solve the problem in a way that the module writer didn't intend?

Olaf the Stout

 

[Moon-Lancer]

planned games suck in my opinion. I like games that the dm created and the players help write through their actions. I am in a red hand of doom game, and because it was pre written i feel the dm limits our actions ect.... Now some pre written adventures can be fun, but you the dm has to be able to change what’s written in the adventure and to beable to account for players actions. I am good at predetermining what’s happing because it’s a written adventure and i know that some actions would have a disasters effect on the modal because I know it can only bend so far.

I think it is best for the dm to have a flexable outline for the game and take it a game at a time.

keep in mind this is how i like to play, and this is my opinion. I am not saying one cannot have fun with a prewriten adventure, im saying i dont have as much fun with prewriten adventures, compared to ones the runs themself, without a modual aid.

 

[QuaziquestGM]

Spoilers*********Red Hand of Doom, That first set of Eberon Mods, DCClassics #10*********************************************************************************************88888






















Red hand of Doom
Objective: Destroy Bridge
My Classruid
Module Breaking Tactic:
Burrow (Spell Compendium) across the open ground up to bridge, pop up, make crack about Alba-turkey, SNA Thoqqua at Maxium range nearly at middle of bridge, repeat next round. Thoqqua have a burrow spead and tunnel though solid stone my melting it and leaving a hole. By, By bridge. Run, Entangle prusuers.

Ebberon
Objective: Get into vault, get mcguffin.
Plot device: Adinmantine door nearly impossible to pick....however, this vault is a ruin, and there is a hole in the roof.
Complication: Unknown to PCs, Item guarded by small size wolf golum thingies that are hidden and attack when anything touches the floor near the chest.
My Class/Race: Hafling cleric
Other party member of note: Human ranger with 18 strength
Module Breaking tactic: standing on roof, cast light on stone, toss into corner so it bounces around inside, allowing spot checks. K9 golums spotted. Appear inactive. Not wanting to get close and possible activate it, the Human takes the hafling's ankles and lowers him head first into the vault. 20 ft to floor. Hafling lassos golem. Party reels them in, battle ax head until rope breaks, falling damage kills it. repeat.

part II

Party takes some of funds provided to travel to contact at "point B" who will help them get to site of objective. Party determines that they have enough funds to bypass first half of adventure and go straight to mission site. Players decide not to flummox Gm and play script...however, they higher diviner to scry on mission location, which is marked on outdated map....and learn that they are heading to camp of the Lord of Blades.......


Dungeon Crawl Classics
Objective/setup: Rumors of treasure in undead infested crypt.
My Class: Level 10 cleric of praylor, good and sun domains, extra turning, greater turning, Disciple of the Sun.8 ranks in Knowledge religion...you get the idea....Gm told me to make a cleric to lead the established party into the adventure as the hook. My order sent me to check out the report and bring bact treasure to fung the orphanage... Mandy, Female, redhead, hafling....Piffany from Nodwick clone, Wis 20, Cha 18....+2 club of disruption.
Other Party members contributing to break:
Multiclass druid ranger
Soulborn with improved sunder
Set up:
1: Dunguen supposed to be inescapaible once entered due to locking portacellus.....
Stone shape, stone breaker acid (old treasure), soulborn with improved sunder.......party free to come and go as it pleases, starts leaving after each fight to reload on high level spells.
2: Every spotted trap or puzzle stoneshapped over
3: every bottomless pit or water puzzle WallOfStoned into safe walkways
4: Detect Magic/Detect undead Oh, there's one, Greater Turning , Gee...I wonder what that thing could have done had it survived to get within melee....
5: Evil Alter radiating magic with detected trap....stone alter....stone shape....alter deleted
6: Undead aboleth...trapped under aforementioned wall of stone along with summoned dire squids....greater turning....destroyed
7: Figher Marshall player starts complining of boredom as only fight that wasn't ended or preempted by cleric was with plants in room one and the bone devil that was moslty killed by the soulborn, the crossbow tha the cleric MagicWeaponed, the Latern Archon the cleric summoned, and the flame strikes the cleric cast. OTher players start taking bets if cleric will one round kill the vampire with greater turning. Called it a night, may pick up game again later.

General module breakers:
Summoned creatures. Look at their movement modes. can it bypass or destory a wall?

Movement altering spells that take the pcs out of the expected plane of combat....Spock noticed that Kahn was thinking 2d in a 3d enviroment....Game designers, and thergo dungen architechs fall into the same trap.

Only one way out dungueons often aren't as secure as the designer's assume....

Parties with access to stoneshape and wall of stone who don't feel under a significant time contraint will literally reshape the dungeon to their wills. T- intersection? Ok, let's explore this way, and ....Wall of Stone...save that way for tomarrow..... Locked door? Trapped? Stoneshape, "Computer, Delete Doorframe."

Designers seldom take into account lassos, marbles en masse, the effective ness of entangle, and are unable to build in protections from spells intoduced in later books...Though Red hand of Doom and Spell Compenduim came out nearly the same time.

On the Bad side of adventure breaking....I once had a druid use a summoned ceature to accidently lock the party into a Beholder Proof room from the outside. Magic and teleport proof containment cell made of unbreakible material that was holding the beholder that they just mistakenly released and killed. Well...now the Xill scientist have something new to study.......

 

[LostSoul]

That's cool, man. I like that kind of creative thinking.

 

[wayne62682]

My group always breaks them.. either through beligerant questioning of things which have nothing to do with the story, or through 'creative' thinking. Like in one module, they were on an airship (Eberron) and were searching through the storage area (after pummeling two guards who tried to stop them because they weren't supposed to be down there) and there was an amazing lock on one.. module did not expect them to be able to pick it, but they turned around and used a vial of acid to burn the lock off and open it. That and two of them stole the item they were supposed to recover because they figured they could sell it for a much higher price than they were being offered to retrieve it.

My group, however, despises modules because they are "railroaded" although I put the blame on them; even if they know the plot of the campaign or mini-campaign, they'll play something that goes against it and then complain. For example if we were playing RHoD, and I told them that it involved hobgoblins and dragons, someone would make a character who hates undead and then get upset when there isn't a lot of undead, or if they know it'd be outside a lot they would make a character with a lot of underground skills... you get the idea. They blame the modules, but they won't tailor characters to fit the theme of the campaign.

 

[bento]

My group, however, despises modules because they are "railroaded" although I put the blame on them; even if they know the plot of the campaign or mini-campaign, they'll play something that goes against it and then complain. For example if we were playing RHoD, and I told them that it involved hobgoblins and dragons, someone would make a character who hates undead and then get upset when there isn't a lot of undead, or if they know it'd be outside a lot they would make a character with a lot of underground skills... you get the idea. They blame the modules, but they won't tailor characters to fit the theme of the campaign.

Sounds like you need to make a social contract before you play that states what type of adventure you're going to GM. If the players complain about their poor choices you can tell them they agreed to the type game in the first place. If they wanted to play the "undead slayer" then they should have saved that character for a more appropriate game.

As for railroading and modules - I certainly feel the same way. Unless my players have early buy-in to the adventure's goals and continue to keep it in focus, they start looking for things to break. Then when I try to get them on track with subtle and not-so-subtle means they start complaining.

 

[ken-ichi]

Nice creative thinking on your part QuaziquestDM.
Just to play devil's advocate, I can think of some basic ways of still presenting a challenge should the DM want to prevent you from 'breaking' the module without nullifying the great ideas completely.

The bridge with the thoqquas is great. I don't know the Red Hand module so I am unaware of how successfully completing the mission resulted in breaking the module, unless it was intended that some of the enemy were to cross the bridge or fight you while you were taking out the bridge. SNA takes an entire round to cast so there was ample oppertunity for the enemy to use ranged weapons or spells to disrupt your casting.

In the ruined forge. The Iron Defenders could have climbed the shelving or walls inside and lept at the people at the edge of the hole. A successful trip or grapple attack should give a chance of pulling the person in, or at least force a Balance check to see if they can stay on the roof. Still not too easy for the Iron Defenders, but allows the encounter to still be run and rewards the players for smart thinking.
When I ran that module the party did a similar thing so I had the iron defenders upon being attacked and not being able to reach the enemy take full cover until someone entered the building at which point they rushed to attack.

higher diviner to scry on mission location, which is marked on outdated map....and learn that they are heading to camp of the Lord of Blades.......
I am assuming the camp of the Lord of Blades lies within the Mournlands. If so the DM would be perfectly justified to say sorry, the divinations reveal nothing or even send you on a horribly wrong direction. Magic in the Mournlands is anything but predictable and reliable. So for a perfectly valid in game reason he could direct you to the guide if he wanted.
Alternatively, many mid to high level modules are built assuming that you can and will make use of divinations like this, so I hardly see using options like these as breaking the module.

The undead dungeon with the porticullis:
1: Dunguen supposed to be inescapaible once entered due to locking portacellus.....
If the dungeon is supposed to be inescapable, then the porticullis should have had reinforcement even up to being coated with walls of force. Any character can power attack his way through a normal porticullis in a few rounds.

2: Every spotted trap or puzzle stoneshapped over
I did not see a rogue in your group. How did you manage to spot all these traps. Only rogues (and a few other classes) have the Trap Finding ability. Most of which are perfectly able to disable the traps without expending a spell slot. Also some traps could be setup to trigger when being tampered with such as being stone shaped over. Again not module breaking.
Most puzzles should be designed IMHO to give you an advantage if you solve them, not be required to acomplish the mission. So using Stone Shape to bypass these would not result in any benefit.

A radiant servant of pelor or just a normal cleric with the sun domain who is allowed to rest to regain his greater turns is going to rock in an undead based dungeon. The combination of greater turning with the resting allowed by letting the porticullis to be destroyed despite the area supposedly being inescapable made these encounters much easier than intended by the module. Clerics are designed to kick butt when fighting undead, so expect it.

Stoneshape and Wall of Stone are not guaranteed protection from residents attacking while you rest. They often will give you warning as the banging down of the wall that was not there yesterday alerts the group.
A competent melee type can often get through that wall in a round or two.

A guess my main point is that I am not sure that any of these points you brought up were caused by the players 'breaking' the module. Some of them at least seem to be from an unwillingness to take up the reins of the game and run with it.

 

[werk]

IMC? Never. I create my own adventures from scratch, usually no more than one or two sessions in advance, so it never really seems to miss a beat. I don't have a set adventure path, just a rough outline. If the party picks up on the 'wrong' plot hook, then the hook is changed, not the direction of the party...sometimes with devastating or hilarious results. It also allows them a lot of room to get off track without completely derailing the campaign.

In games that I play in, which always seem to be published material, we break them all the time. Either we are overpowered or see right through the premise, or we're underpowered or can't see the forest for the trees. I am frequently accused of reading the modules in advance (cheating) despite the fact that I never read modules other than freebies posted online and wouldn't pre-read because it's not fun for me.

My problem with published material is that the DMs usually don't FEEL the adventure. When I'm running an adventure that I've created, I know what the NPCs look like, how they would react, etc...it's MY world. I just don't get that immersive feeling from wrote stuff, and without that level of attention, things often go awry IMO.

 

[Klaus]

Spoilers*********Red Hand of Doom, That first set of Eberon Mods***

Red hand of Doom
Objective: Destroy Bridge
My Classruid
Module Breaking Tactic:
Burrow (Spell Compendium) across the open ground up to bridge, pop up, make crack about Alba-turkey, SNA Thoqqua at Maxium range nearly at middle of bridge, repeat next round. Thoqqua have a burrow spead and tunnel though solid stone my melting it and leaving a hole. By, By bridge. Run, Entangle prusuers.

That breaks nothing. You are supposed to destroy the bridge. And there´s supposed to be a dragon guarding the bridge, and entangle would do little to stop it.

Ebberon
Objective: Get into vault, get mcguffin.
Plot device: Adinmantine door nearly impossible to pick....however, this vault is a ruin, and there is a hole in the roof.
Complication: Unknown to PCs, Item guarded by small size wolf golum thingies that are hidden and attack when anything touches the floor near the chest.
My Class/Race: Hafling cleric
Other party member of note: Human ranger with 18 strength
Module Breaking tactic: standing on roof, cast light on stone, toss into corner so it bounces around inside, allowing spot checks. K9 golums spotted. Appear inactive. Not wanting to get close and possible activate it, the Human takes the hafling's ankles and lowers him head first into the vault. 20 ft to floor. Hafling lassos golem. Party reels them in, battle ax head until rope breaks, falling damage kills it. repeat.

The iron defenders (the dog golems) are supposed to attack anyone who enters the building. That includes dangling upside down from the roof. With shelves and tables about, and its +10 Jump check mofifier (+2 Str and +8 from 50ft. speed), it´d have no problem leaping at you.

Second, wielding a lasso is hard enough right-side up, let alone upside down.

And third, these aren´t "golems" per se, they are almost as smart as a human, so they'd tag-team to pull the human down, or otherwise bite at the rope and sever it.

part II

Party takes some of funds provided to travel to contact at "point B" who will help them get to site of objective. Party determines that they have enough funds to bypass first half of adventure and go straight to mission site. Players decide not to flummox Gm and play script...however, they higher diviner to scry on mission location, which is marked on outdated map....and learn that they are heading to camp of the Lord of Blades.......

The "funds" are supposed to be a letter of credit, which can´t be used for anything else except the stated purpose. By "straight to mission site", I assume you mean Rose Quarry, the abandoned Cannith outpost in Darguun, which would be very hard (and not time-effective) to find without a locla guide in a lawless hobgoblin nation. Once you get to the "outdated map" (which I assume is the floor map at Rose Quarry), divinations can't pierce the Mournland (at least not any divination available to 3rd-level characters -- the module´s suggested level). And the Lord of Blades is hardly near anywhere in the adventure.

IME, Players break modules far less often than DMs.