How Per Encounter power recharging should work

[jasin]

Because if my character has enough stamina to pull off Uber Blade Strike, and Hammer of the Gods, and Lay the Smack Down, then he has enough stamina to realistically be able to pull off Uber Blade Strike twice instead.

With a recharge mechanic it's still s easier to do UBS then HotG than UBS twice.

To do what you want, you need something like sorcerer spellcasting: "your powers are UBS, HotG and LtSD; you can use a total of 3 powers per encounter, in any combination".

I have a black belt in taekwondo and used to compete in tournaments. If I got off a jump 360 roundhouse kick or spin hook to the head, I didn't need to wait until after the match to be able to do it again. I just needed another opening.

Depending on how you spin it, either those are at will rather than per encounter powers, or the number of openings is rounded to one per fighter per move.

 

[Dragonblade]

If the rule is rest 1 minute outside combat to recharge encounter powers, I can see characters finishing a combat and laying down to ground to rest a little, even before looting, just to make sure they aren't caught unpowered.

*last monster is defeated*
-Quick guys, let's catch our breath fast, I hear enemies coming, let those coins there Rogue! We get them later, OMG OMG they are coming, rest rest rest!!!"

I agree with you on this. I think the 1 minute is just convenient designer rationalization to explain the powers refreshing. Personally, I think an encounter is defined from the moment you roll initiative until you cease round by round play.

If I was DMing and my characters finished a fight but then new enemies showed up, I would give them back all their powers if they had to roll iniative again. Even if only a few seconds had passed. Technically I consider that a new encounter.

 

[Dragonblade]

To do what you want, you need something like sorcerer spellcasting: "your powers are UBS, HotG and LtSD; you can use a total of 3 powers per encounter, in any combination".

Thats actually not a bad way to handle it and would alleviate some of the issues I have with use once and its gone. One of the reasons I always found sorcerers more fun to play than wizards in 3.5.

 

[jasin]

Thats the whole point of my thread. There SHOULD be one. See my SW example. If there is no in-battle recharge mechanic, it completely breaks suspension of disbelief.

"Rest 1 minute" is an in-battle recharge mechanic. It's just a question of cost-efficiency.

"Sorry guys, I know we are fighting the evil lich king and he'll cover the land in 1000 years of darkness if we fail, but my god only lets me smite evil X times and I'm fresh out."

Taking that kind of reasoning to its logical extreme can get really silly. "Sorry guys, I know we are fighting the evil lich king and he'll cover the land in 1000 years of darkness if we fail, but my god only lets me take 150 hp before I'm dead. What a jerk."

So if I didn't ready a certain power for the day and my character gets into a battle where he needs it then he is just screwed? No recourse? No way to ready that power in combat?

What if you only pack bludgeoning weapons and the opponent has DR 20/slashing? You deal with it some other way. Or, if it was a truly bad mistake, you don't. Sometimes you're just past the point of no return.

No possible way my character could train and train and train and be able to pull it off twice?

You could model that without a recharge mechanics. Like in Saga, where if you want to be able to use a Force power twice in an encounter, take it twice for your list.

 

[jasin]

If the rule is rest 1 minute outside combat to recharge encounter powers, I can see characters finishing a combat and laying down to ground to rest a little, even before looting, just to make sure they aren't caught unpowered.

If you've just been in a fight and more opponents are likely to come along, doesn't it make more sense to stop for a minute and catch a breath than throw yourself into looting?

 

[Abstraction]

At the end of the day, this is still a GAME. A rules-based, abstracted game. You just have to swallow your suspension of disbelief sometimes and just play for fun without worrying about the minutia of the rules versus what Jedi X did in Movie Y. There are games that are based on storytelling with very simplistic conflict resolution mechanics. These are the kind of games you might be interested in to free up the gulf you have between what you WANT and what the rules PROVIDE. I mean that as no disrespect, these are pretty good games.

 

[outsider]

I have a black belt in taekwondo and used to compete in tournaments. If I got off a jump 360 roundhouse kick or spin hook to the head, I didn't need to wait until after the match to be able to do it again. I just needed another opening.

Yeah, but I'm also guessing you didn't open the fight by doing jump 360 roundhouse kicks one after the other until you were too tired to do it anymore. That's the way the system in D&D has worked up until now. They are trying to find a way to make people stop just spamming the same ability over and over again. Per encounter is a pretty big improvement in that direction. It's not perfect, but people will actually be doing something different from round to round now. It would be nice if they could come up with a system where you wait for specific openings to use specific abilities(presumably you'd need a different opening to land a spin back kick than a jumping roundhouse), but that would be EXTREMELY complicated, probably too complicated to actually do in a game with as many different abilities as D&D unless you want a 3000 page book.

I do actually agree with you though. There should be a way for you to recharge a per encounter ability, or maybe swap out one per encounter ability for another. It can be a different method for every class, but it should be a basic part of the class and not something you have to buy. I'm just happy enough that there'll be some variety in round to round actions now that I wouldn't complain too much if there wasn't an in combat recharge. Anything is better than the "jumping roundhouse, jumping roundhouse, jumping roundhouse, jumping roundhouse. Oh no, I'm out of jumping roundhouses. Spinning back kick, spinning back kick, spinning back kick...." system we've had in previous editions.

 

[Lanefan]

Just live with the fact you're not always going to have exactly the ability you need right when you need it...and realistically, nor should you. It still comes down to resource management.

That said, I too want to know how per-encounter abilities will work when there is no "encounter" yet it would still make sense to use one...most of my examples, however, dealt with stat-changing abilities and I gather those are gone altogether now. Of course, there's the somewhat silly (yet realistic) question that goes if you can't use a per-encounter ability outside of an encounter then how do you practice/rehearse it when you're training or exercising on your own?

Lanefan

 

[D_E]

It drives me nuts. "Sorry, my character can't use the force anymore in this fight." It feels completely artificial and ruins my suspension of disbelief. Its like Vancian casting all over again.

Unlike SW Saga, a character can't run out of juice in mid-battle in 4th ed. All characters have a supply of at-will abilities tied to their class theme. So you won't be able to use your big stuff more than once or twice an encounter, but you can do something flashy and effective every round. And frankly, you shouldn't be able to use your flashy stuff more than once.

 

[Greg K]

I'm just happy enough that there'll be some variety in round to round actions now that I wouldn't complain too much if there wasn't an in combat recharge. Anything is better than the "jumping roundhouse, jumping roundhouse, jumping roundhouse, jumping roundhouse. Oh no, I'm out of jumping roundhouses. Spinning back kick, spinning back kick, spinning back kick...." system we've had in previous editions.

Well, I thought the Book of Iron Might got it right for combat maneuvers. BAB penalties to hit and other riskiness built into certain maneuvers. If your character has less chance of striking an opponent and possibly risk their opponent getting free attacks, trip attempts, saves, etc., which, if successful, can also negate the effects or prevent the maneuver, the player is not going to keep repeatedly using the most powerful maneuvers against opponents as skilled or more skilled than the character. Well, not unless the character is being played as stupid or suicidal.