How secure is a Magnificent Mansion?

[htetickrt]

Here's the text from the SRD for the spell:

You conjure up an extradimensional dwelling that has a single entrance on the plane from which the spell was cast. The entry point looks like a faint shimmering in the air that is 4 feet wide and 8 feet high. Only those you designate may enter the mansion, and the portal is shut and made invisible behind you when you enter. You may open it again from your own side at will. Once observers have passed beyond the entrance, they are in a magnificent foyer with numerous chambers beyond. The atmosphere is clean, fresh, and warm.

Since the place can be entered only through its special portal, outside conditions do not affect the mansion, nor do conditions inside it pass to the plane beyond.

My players--presently taking on the entire population of Castle Maerimydra (from CotSQ) at once--are planning on making frequent use of the spell to rest between difficult sets of battles. Since the residents of the castle are far from stupid, they should have a reasonable response to this. Other than retrofitting one of the few mages left alive in the place with a transdimensional spell feat, which I don't really like doing, is there anything they can do to respond to this strategy?

I was hoping for something more along the lines of slow attrition than a "can you beat THIS BBEG? How about THIS one?" dynamic. They've done a good job in wiping out most of the lower eschelon of the castle, but I was hoping to make the top dogs exciting without threatening a TPK in every fight.

Thanks in advance for any and all ideas!

EDIT: I should note that I put this under rules because I'm looking more for the boundaries of the spell than general ideas, though I certainly welcome those too.

 

[Gilrion]

Well, it's a magical effect, so you should be able to dispel it. Finding it may be a bit more difficult, but See Invisibility makes it easier. Keep in mind that this is a 7th level spell. That's a powerful resource, and the players should be able to enjoy some benefit by using it.

 

[Patlin]

Well, it's a magical effect, so you should be able to dispel it.

I've been planning this for some time, for my own campaign, as our group *always* uses the mansion as described. At lower levels, we tend to use rope trick instead. A couple of suggestions:

1) Even smart enemies might not catch on immediately. They may think the PCs teleported away. Resting in safety is the spells main purpose, so the PCs should get away with it most of the time.

2) Give fair warning! Even with greater dispelling, the chances are significant that the bad guys will miss at least one dispell check. If that happens, I recomend telling your players "It's the middle of the night, and you are each sleeping comfortably in your individual rooms, when you percieve a brief tremor similar to a small earthquake." A DC 12 spellcraft check will reveal someone is trying to dispell the Mansion. If the bad guy has more than one greater dispelling ready, it may only be a matter of a few rounds warning, but having a round or two to prepare is a heck of a lot better than being sound asleep when your bedroom ceases to exist under you and appearing sprawled on the dungeon floor surrounded by thirty angry drow!

 

[Saeviomagy]

My suggestion is to think like the BBEGs.

"Hmm, my stronghold keeps being assaulted by adventurers who pop in, slaughter some of my number, and then pop out again. Guess I should find a more secure house for the moment, and get some revenge if I feel like it"

Have the monsters leave for a new base, possibly scry on the adventurers, and then be proactive. One morning, the players wake to find the mansion abandoned, and shortly thereafter get jumped by an assasination squad.

THAT'S what high level play is about - the enemy is no longer just a bunch of goblins with no assets who wait for you to wipe them out. High level play is about new challenges for player and DM alike, not just more of the same.

Make time be of the essence. If the PC's renew their attack even once, then the bad guys shouuld thereafter be planning on further attacks.

 

[Dareoon Dalandrove]

First if the bad guys have seen them enter their "hideout" then they can report what they saw, where it happend and can take action.

First: You could lay an ambush. The bad guys could figure out where they went in and where they'll come out. Lay some traps Glyph of warding is good. Also Nightmare might be useful anything that can attack them while they're inside. If you keep them awake then they can't rest and wont heal or get spells back.

Second: Maybe you can seal the door. Maybe not with a spell per say but what about some earth elementals working on piling some stone up and sealing the door.


Would dimensional anchor work on them? It isn't listed in the discription as one of the spells BUT you are dimesional traveling.

 

[htetickrt]

Thanks for the ideas!

Well, it's a magical effect, so you should be able to dispel it. Finding it may be a bit more difficult, but See Invisibility makes it easier. Keep in mind that this is a 7th level spell. That's a powerful resource, and the players should be able to enjoy some benefit by using it.

I plan on letting them have some benefit, but it's one of the spells the 17th level sorcerer knows, and she's saved up 7 slots capable of casting it, so I'm worried it could be overused.

1) Even smart enemies might not catch on immediately. They may think the PCs teleported away. Resting in safety is the spells main purpose, so the PCs should get away with it most of the time.
2) Give fair warning!

I like the warning idea. I might make it harder to spot, but the sorcerer is in the 30's with spellcrft and the ranger has a spot in the 30's as well, so I doubt they'd miss it regardless of which roll I required. Seems fair, though.

As for teleporting away, that brings up a question I have: Can the BBEG scry inside of the mansion? Can she only to so using certain spells?

To Saeviomagy: Unfortunately, leaving is not possible here, as the adventure dictates that the BBEG stay put while she develops her spell in a set location. Time is of the essence, but unfortunately there is no way for the players to know how much, short of their capturing one of the few non-undead enemies around, or my telling them out of character, which I'd like to avoid.

First: You could lay an ambush. The bad guys could figure out where they went in and where they'll come out. Lay some traps Glyph of warding is good. Also Nightmare might be useful anything that can attack them while they're inside. If you keep them awake then they can't rest and wont heal or get spells back.

Would dimensional anchor work on them? It isn't listed in the discription as one of the spells BUT you are dimesional traveling.

I like the Nightmare idea; didn't think of that. Observation is difficult given that most of the castle is now deceased.

The dimensional anchor idea brings up a second question: Does entering the mansion count as planar travel? Because they are in a forbiddance, which would clarify matters substantially.

 

[Herpes Cineplex]

I plan on letting them have some benefit, but it's one of the spells the 17th level sorcerer knows, and she's saved up 7 slots capable of casting it, so I'm worried it could be overused.

Overused in what way? Making an individual mansion for each party member?

Magnificent Mansion never struck me as the kind of spell you cast more than once a day anyway. It's kind of cool that the sorceror opted to make it one of her known spells, considering the other options she had at that level.

As for teleporting away, that brings up a question I have: Can the BBEG scry inside of the mansion? Can she only to so using certain spells?

I don't think there's an official rule for this. Me, I'd say that yes, the BBEG can scry inside the mansion, because Scry doesn't care what plane or dimension or extra-/non-dimensional space you might be in. However, since the spell description says that there is only a single entrance on the plane from which the spell was cast and that the extradimensional space the mansion exists in can only be entered through its special portal, I wouldn't let anyone teleport into it. Or out of it, if it came to that; you come in through the portal, you leave through the portal, no other options.

The dimensional anchor idea brings up a second question: Does entering the mansion count as planar travel? Because they are in a forbiddance, which would clarify matters substantially.

Personally, I don't think it does (the wording of forbiddance doesn't make me believe it has any effect on travel-types other than the ones it specifically names, and the wording of the mansion spell doesn't make me think it's akin to any of the forbidden types). It's your call, though; you could certainly say that it's blocked by forbiddance and thereby prevent the sorceror from ever casting it.


But if this were my game and my problem, I'd likely go with Saeviomagy's suggestion: rather than look for a way to make the mansion less cool and less useful, I'd look for ways to make the BBEGs respond more cannily to a bunch of marauding adventurers who hole up in a mansion whenever they need rest. Tricks like sending out minions who can detect magic to find the portal so I can set up traps and ambushes around it (or having an umber hulk dig a wide, deep pit below the portal so they step out and start falling right away), trying late-night greater dispelling/ambush attacks, and so on are a good start.

I'd also start using the BBEG's time better. Every time the party holes up for eight to twelve hours to rest and recuperate, that's eight to twelve hours the bad guys can use to find out what just happened, get organized, get reinforcements, lay down nastier traps, pass out useful scrolls to minions, get all the lieutenants briefed on what the party can do and what their usual tactics are, etc.; so every time they take a rest after a difficult battle, it's free license to make the NEXT battle even MORE difficult, because they're basically giving the bad guys the chance to prepare for it.

I might also try to find some way of getting the time limit across to them, by either planting a letter or some notes for them to find that will give them an idea about just how close the BBEG's evil scheme is to completion. (And if I'm disappointed by how they're turtling up and feeling mean about it, I'd make the deadline tomorrow to encourage them to drive straight through to the end.)

I might also be tempted to have some other group eat their lunch; if there are any other forces hostile to the BBEG out there, I might have them do some of the things the party wanted to do, and thereby claim the rewards and the XP. Kind of a "You snooze, you lose" thing. But only if that other hostile force is also hostile to the PCs, of course; anything that makes their slothful, overcautious "one fight a day" approach a liability is fine by me.

--
i see no reason why they can't be both safe and sorry
ryan

 

[Plane Sailing]

If you check out Piratecats storyhour you can read of the time when the party was resting in MMM (renamed to Calphas Comfortable Castle) and the BBEG manages to open a gate to the extradimensional place and send through a real nasty - an advanced fiendish black pudding or some such. You might get some good ideas from there.

Cheers

 

[Thanee]

At some points, the opposition will use whatever means they have available to find out where these pesky adventurers are coming from. If they are not dumb and have some knowledge in spellcraft as well, they will consider this as one possibility. So, if the adventurers are not careful to hide what they are doing. or changing their habits constantly, sooner or later they will find a nasty surprise when they leave their magnificient mansion.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

...the BBEG manages to open a gate to the extradimensional place...

He must be using a modified Gate spell, or not?

I think it is impossible to open a gate into an extradimensional space normally, and it actually violates the spell description, too, which clearly states, that other beings cannot enter the mansion and it cannot be entered other than through the special portal.

Anyways, once you know what you are looking for, Arcane Sight/See Invisibility plus Greater Dispel Magic will certainly work.

Bye
Thanee