How should I respond to my DM?

[Oryan77]

It sounds like you guys already won the game.

If you expect the DM to not challenge you in any way because you are invincible, then why not just assume the PCs have won and start a new game with some low level characters that can be played without the DM needing to "cheat" in order to provide you guys with adventure?

Otherwise, this situation seems like it doesn't need a DM at all. You guys can just sit around and talk about how your characters are snorting worlds to get a buzz and forcing the gods to massage your feet. If the gods are just play things for your PCs, then at this point, you honestly don't need a DM there for anything at all. You should be DMing yourselves.

 

[OnlineDM]

It sounds like this campaign is not salvageable to me. Time to start over, perhaps with a different group.

You have a DM who laid out a premise for super-powerful evil PCs to destroy the gods. Now that they're at that point, he doesn't seem interested in following through. You can't make him do so.

It sounds like a pretty dysfunctional group at this point.

 

[Naoki00_]

It sounds like this campaign is not salvageable to me. Time to start over, perhaps with a different group.

You have a DM who laid out a premise for super-powerful evil PCs to destroy the gods. Now that they're at that point, he doesn't seem interested in following through. You can't make him do so.

It sounds like a pretty dysfunctional group at this point.

It sounds like you guys already won the game.

If you expect the DM to not challenge you in any way because you are invincible, then why not just assume the PCs have won and start a new game with some low level characters that can be played without the DM needing to "cheat" in order to provide you guys with adventure?

Otherwise, this situation seems like it doesn't need a DM at all. You guys can just sit around and talk about how your characters are snorting worlds to get a buzz and forcing the gods to massage your feet. If the gods are just play things for your PCs, then at this point, you honestly don't need a DM there for anything at all. You should be DMing yourselves.

to Oryan77- Purhaps I should explain a bit more, it's not that the gods don't matter nor are we exactly invincible. to but it more simply it's that normal mortals are beneath us. Demi-gods and the like are more near our power level but there aren't too many of those, and epic level NPCs aren't exactly common place. we still aren't powerful enough to kill gods, effect them yes, control them with subtly and trickery, yes. the main character (mine) has the potential to become Ao's equal, which is her goal (she's basically Ao's illegitimate child from the original goddess of all magic). No I do not expect us to not be challenged at all, in fact I expect a slightly uphill battle in the long run, however this is only a small bit into the campaign to be honest, purhaps 4-5 sessions only (slight memory lapse on which one) and we've already encountered these things. no god or being knows the great threat to multi-verse is loose and yet these things are happening. think of it like a good villian's build up, where they build and build until the hero's finally rear their heads....though this time the hero's end up slaughtered and now the gods have to start getting worried. We haven't been able to even exploit our characters role play aspects because we're shoehorned from it. Purhaps part of the issue is that our group (the only group we have by the way) is much more role play centric usually and so combat broken characters aren't an issue, not many fights happen after enough shows of might.

The adventure of this campaign is playing out the all-powerful villain, by mortal stand point our characters are beyond their reach mostly, and climbing up the ladder into the god's realms...not really through just fighting, but confusion, tricking nations into going against each other, weaking the gods by making their worshipers kill one another all while staying out of the gods eyes until the moment to strike them down one by one. that kind of adventure, we haven't won yet, heck we haven't hardly been given the chance to begin....


And now finally to OnlineDM: this is our only group, we're all long time friends besides our current DM whom we've known for only a few years, and this is the first time this has happened to us...also, our DM isn't the one that came up with this plot. I did originally with it's first DM, another of our friends. After it's first draft he found that he couldn't handle a plot that had this level of complexity and power in it and so after a time of being gone it was taken up by the current one when we all agreed that we would love to have it done again.

 

[Agamon]

on some level I do agree...but the rest of the group really is hoping to save it, we're considering handling the moniker of DM to another, but on the note of what you said, I've always run sandbox style campaigns, so I'm not really aware of the level of control he's used too...perhaps you could elaborate on how much control is is in fact lost? that might help understand his viewpoint for us. I personally simply play the story as it happens with a greater plot in mind, if the players deviate to do something else then they do.

Not control over the plot, but the setting, in general. The PCs seem powerful enough to do whatever they want, they really don't need anyone to facilitate that, he's probably feeling redundant. (Edit: just read your above post, this may not be the problem if you as players expect to be challenged).

But, yeah, if he's not a sandbox GM, that's another issue entirely. Like in improv, running a sandbox means always saying "yes" and running with it. If he's saying no, then he's trying to run a diferent game than the players might want. It doesn't make him a worse GM, just one with a different style that just isn't meshing with the players' style. Again, that's not good for the future of the game.

 

[OnlineDM]

So the new DM didn't even design this premise but agreed to run it after the original DM backed out because of the complexity...

I don't know what to tell you. I'm guessing there's a certain type of DM out there who might relish running this game. I don't believe I've ever met such a DM, nor am I one myself. It doesn't sound like your current DM is one, either.

You're playing a very unusual game that sounds extremely hard for a DM in terms of providing challenge to the PCs. Frankly, it sounds like a miserable experience for the DM. If the DM isn't having fun, why would he continue to run the game?

I stand by my earlier post. This campaign looks unsalvageable. You can start a new one with the same players if you're all friends, but make sure whatever campaign you start is one that the DM really wants to run.

 

[Naoki00_]

Not control over the plot, but the setting, in general. The PCs seem powerful enough to do whatever they want, they really don't need anyone to facilitate that, he's probably feeling redundant. (Edit: just read your above post, this may not be the problem if you as players expect to be challenged).

But, yeah, if he's not a sandbox GM, that's another issue entirely. Like in improv, running a sandbox means always saying "yes" and running with it. If he's saying no, then he's trying to run a diferent game than the players might want. It doesn't make him a worse GM, just one with a different style that just isn't meshing with the players' style. Again, that's not good for the future of the game.

So the new DM didn't even design this premise but agreed to run it after the original DM backed out because of the complexity...

I don't know what to tell you. I'm guessing there's a certain type of DM out there who might relish running this game. I don't believe I've ever met such a DM, nor am I one myself. It doesn't sound like your current DM is one, either.

You're playing a very unusual game that sounds extremely hard for a DM in terms of providing challenge to the PCs. Frankly, it sounds like a miserable experience for the DM. If the DM isn't having fun, why would he continue to run the game?

I stand by my earlier post. This campaign looks unsalvageable. You can start a new one with the same players if you're all friends, but make sure whatever campaign you start is one that the DM really wants to run.

to Agamon: you might be right on the feeling redundant part, it hadn't crossed my min..I'll definitely bring that up with him to see if thats part of the issue, if he keeps wanting to do it just to prove something or similar then it's not really worth it.. as for the saying yes or no bit, it's not that we want a yes or no, but we'd hope for an experience when we try to do something instead of 'we do that, this happens' followed by 'no this happens instead'

to OnlineDM: I've done campaigns similar to this one before, a few in fact. one idea I've had is to ask if I could run it for a bit to see if that makes things more interesting, but I'm worried I'd come off as insulting or arrogant...what I think might be going on is that he does in fact enjoy the story, but wants it to go in a much more ridged and challenged manner then we had all wanted (mortals are just as broken and the gods are beyond broken instead of mortals being ants and gods eventually being equals.)...I don't think it's unsavable just yet though, too many of us want it to be lol

 

[Doug McCrae]

In many respects you have an awesome game there. Really imaginative OTT ideas. I don't think I've ever heard of a millions of years old vampire before. Becoming one with the negative material plane is both bonkers and brilliant. The furthest I've ever gone was, in an Amber game, trying to turn my shapeshifting PC into a planet. The GM wouldn't let me!

The problem is, to make for an interesting game, or an interesting story, the PCs have to be seriously challenged. When you're talking about power on the level of controlling the negative material plane, I'm not sure if there's anything left to oppose the PCs. It seems like they've gone beyond the power of even the overgods (I'm not surprised Ao is scared of you!)

The only things I can think of to challenge them would be sentient planes of existence, (perhaps a 'bad guy' has taken control of the positive material), monsters from outside the whole multiverse, beings that exist in many planes simultaneously, or whole pantheons of gods. By this stage we've almost left the basic concepts of the D&D universe behind and are having to write all our own rules, which in fact you guys do seem to be doing.

Basicallly what I'm saying is, this is a really really hard game to run. The GM has to do a lot of work here. And the whole thing may be getting so weird as to be incomprehensible. So cut him a bit of slack.

 

[Griego]

Either the DM is going to be bored having the PCs running over everything without breaking a sweat (and maybe even the players after a while), or the players are upset when the DM breaks a few rules to provide something of a challenge to the party. Sounds like a lose-lose situation.

 

[Naoki00_]

In many respects you have an awesome game there. Really imaginative OTT ideas. I don't think I've ever heard of a millions of years old vampire before. Becoming one with the negative material plane is both bonkers and brilliant. The furthest I've ever gone was, in an Amber game, trying to turn my shapeshifting PC into a planet. The GM wouldn't let me!

The problem is, to make for an interesting game, or an interesting story, the PCs have to be seriously challenged. When you're talking about power on the level of controlling the negative material plane, I'm not sure if there's anything left to oppose the PCs. It seems like they've gone beyond the power of even the overgods (I'm not surprised Ao is scared of you!)

The only things I can think of to challenge them would be sentient planes of existence, (perhaps a 'bad guy' has taken control of the positive material), monsters from outside the whole multiverse, beings that exist in many planes simultaneously, or whole pantheons of gods. By this stage we've almost left the basic concepts of the D&D universe behind and are having to write all our own rules, which in fact you guys do seem to be doing.

Basicallly what I'm saying is, this is a really really hard game to run. The GM has to do a lot of work here. And the whole thing may be getting so weird as to be incomprehensible. So cut him a bit of slack.

Either the DM is going to be bored having the PCs running over everything without breaking a sweat (and maybe even the players after a while), or the players are upset when the DM breaks a few rules to provide something of a challenge to the party. Sounds like a lose-lose situation.

to Doug McCrae: why thank you for the compliment heh, I have the penchant for the epic. as for being more powerful then the overgods, that not so in the story, more or less even as the entirety of the negative energy plane she's more powerful then rank 6-8 deities without much of a stretch, but over that is pushing it. the way the universe works right now is that a god has total domain over it's title unless what it's asserting it's might over is stronger then it (such as a god with dominion over animals could smite or control anything animal without even trying unless it was more powerful energy wise) our magic works on logic partly, such as- magic isn't common place because too much magic creates too much chaos. A world with so much power flowing around and some upstart could break a planet, you need to invest effort into something, not just read a bunch (being 100 years old and having read 1000 books of magic means jack crap if you've never done it or built up your own spiritual/energetic might to even do it....sadly I have to bring in a naruto/DBZ reference 'not enough chakra/chi/inner magic reserves and all your stored and known spells mean squat cause you can't muster the power to form them).

now because she's the daughter of Ao and the personification of magic itself, she's pretty immune to most deific stuff. Ao can't kill her, whether because of a self imposed block of power from unwillingness to kill his only true child or because she's impossible to keep dead period is unclear at the moment (to the characters at least). but she still can't match an overgod who has total control of several things. (hell theres an overgod I created years ago named Izumi that has total reign over all evil, hate, and corruption and basically is the god of silent hill. my character would just plain ignore her in hopes she'd never meet her until she's all powerful...even Ao isn't immune to things like hate and corruption and neither is she)...

you do however have it dead on in the long run, we will be facing those sorts of things eventually, but for challenges right now we want to take of the mortal realms without alerting too many big names that we even exist..even with being able to hide from the gods we could be found out and re-sealed. so we have to use our wits to sow doubt and chaos into the world so we can garner our own following until the whole Prime Material is under our puppeteering thumb, then set about doing the same with other planes until we can make the big plays and action loudly..but thats not for some time.

now on to Griego: I would hope that if he was bored with it he would simply tell us and lets us brainstorm, not drudge on and think he's just not doing it well.

 

[RoryN]

If the Dm you have now wasn't involved in the originating of this storyline/campaign, it may just be that more difficult for him to "get into it". Most DM's I have known, including myself, take a lot of pride in creating their campaign worlds, story lines, and the challenges therein.

Also, despite the fact that much of the info you have given regarding your character and the story is very interesting and unique, was all the power you have just basically given at the start of the campaign? I don't know how long you've been playing this particular storyline, but if the PCs started out as basically demi-gods, that's a very difficult situation for a DM to step into. If this was all earned through a long campaign, then that's one thing, but to start with it is quite another.