How to break the multiclass spellcasting chart

[BluejayJunior]

The specification about as if a single class member is only made in the determining spells known and prepared part. It has nothing to do with determining your total spell slots, which in turn determine what spells you can learn and prepare.

These two sentences contradict themselves. You prepare, learn, and know spells based on how you would as a single classed spellcaster of that level. It is not based on the total spell slots. It is based on the level of the spellcaster and they slots they would have available at the level.
I think everyone above, and the examples given in the book, make it pretty clear how the rule works.

 

[ccs]

Step 5
An Example

Now that we know this, we can make an example character. Let’s call her Sally.

Sally is going to start out as a 1st level paladin. She’ll continue taking paladin levels until she is 6th level. Now she is going to take 14 levels of bard. She has access to 0th through 9th level spells. Because (6/2)+14=17 and 17th level is when we get a 9th level spell slot.

When I'm the DM one of two things is going to happen here:
1) I, the evil DM, will kill Sally long before you get to enjoy abusing the system.
2) The campaign will end long before such abuse gets properly going.

And then....

The house rule will be implemented restricting characters to learning & casting their spells using only slots available to individual classes.
So Sally the Paladin-6/bard-14? Will cast paladin spells as any other 6th lv paladin & bard spells as any other 14th lv bard. There won't be any spell slot sharing/shennanigins occurring.

 

[Dausuul]

Ok. So everyone is saying that a spellcaster can only prepare/learn spells as if they were single classed. But all of the spellcasting classes say that the spells have to be of levels for which they have spell slots. The specification about as if a single class member is only made in the determining spells known and prepared part. It has nothing to do with determining your total spell slots, which in turn determine what spells you can learn and prepare.

The process for determining what spells you know/prepare is:

1. Determine what spell slots you have.
2. Pick spells you could cast with those slots.

The multiclass rules say: "You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class." So the process is:

1. Determine what spell slots a single-classed member of your class would have.
2. Pick spells a single-classed member of your class could cast with those slots.

You're trying to ignore the multiclass rules for step 1. You can't. They apply all the way through, start to finish.

 

[Ancalagon]

you may ask "what is the point of having higher level slots if I can't cast higher level spells?" You can use those slots to "upcast" certain spells. For example, a fireball cast with a 4rth level slots does more damage.

 

[Skywatch]

First, their example is bad. Second, in that whole section, there is nothing that changes how the class learns and prepares spells. Nothing in that section says that you don’t base learning/preparing spells based on your spell slots.

 

[the Jester]

First, their example is bad. Second, in that whole section, there is nothing that changes how the class learns and prepares spells. Nothing in that section says that you don’t base learning/preparing spells based on your spell slots.

Yes there is- the quote, given over and over again upthread, about how "You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class."

I get that you're enthusiastic about this idea, but you are simply incorrect.

 

[Dausuul]

First, their example is bad. Second, in that whole section, there is nothing that changes how the class learns and prepares spells. Nothing in that section says that you don’t base learning/preparing spells based on your spell slots.

The rules say you're wrong.
The example demonstrates that you're wrong.
Half a dozen people in this thread have explained how you're wrong.
Mike Mearls confirms that you're wrong.
All of this is because you are, in fact, wrong.

Now, you are clearly bound and determined to believe that this exploit works, and you're free to believe that. You can even house-rule it that way if you're DMing. But don't expect anyone here to agree with you.

 

[Tony Vargas]

First, their example is bad.

Not going to violently disagree with that...

Second, in that whole section, there is nothing that changes how the class learns and prepares spells. Nothing in that section says that you don’t base learning/preparing spells based on your spell slots.

Of course not, because you absolutely do base knowing/preparing spells for each of your classes on the spell slots you would have if you were single-classed. Why would it contradict that, and what could it have put in its place, to get that idea across?

5e is written in natural language, not precise jargon, so you often have to make an effort to find the sensible reading.

 

[Satyrn]

Its kind of a shame that multiclassing doesn't work the way the OP says it does. I'd like to be able to make a cleric/wizard and not have those 9th level slots nearly go to waste . . .

. . . though that really speaks to how upcasting doesn't have the punch I think it ought to.

 

[Tony Vargas]

. . . though that really speaks to how upcasting doesn't have the punch I think it ought to.

It does seem a little shy of it's potential. at least for some spells. If save DC were also based on slot level instead of character level, that could help make upcasting more worthwhile...