How to deal with a Monk's AC?

[Deset Gled]

without items his base stats are:
str 12
Dex 24 (not gonna lie, clearly i fudged this stat just to make him more formidable. everything else was rolled though)
con 13
Int 17
Wis 11
Cha 19

Crikey, those are some ridiculously high stats. Like, impossibly high stats. Even ignoring the extremely silly 24 Dex, how do you roll a 19 Cha? And a 17 Int for good measure?

It's pretty obvious from the Int and Cha scores (and the rest of the build) that this player is hardly min/maxed. He had his high AC handed to him on a platter. And if you're going to do that, there's no harm in giving an enemy an abnormally high hit bonus to match.

 

[Stormonu]

Actually, I think those are the villian's stats, possibly augmented by magic items.

 

[Deset Gled]

Actually, I think those are the villian's stats, possibly augmented by magic items.

That makes a bit more sense. My mistake. Although, to correct you as well, he did state that these were base scores without items.

I think the main reason I got confused is because these scores were specifically noted as rolled stats. If you're trying to build a villain specifically to counter players abilities, and are openly okay with fudging numbers as you see fit to do that, I don't understand why rolling is even a factor. Just give him the stats you need and be done with it. For that matter, you really don't even need to give him complete stats; give him the net bonuses he needs and be done with it.

 

[n00bdragon]

Don't worry about it -- with all the focus he's put into being unhittable, his flurry of misses remains that.

This. Why exactly are you hell bent on beating on this monk? What threat does he pose compared to the party casters. If the monk is truly the highest priority target in the group then your group is so seriously underpowered you shouldn't even being throwing same-CR stuff at them.

 

[Ahnehnois]

I don't see that AC 44 is a particularly impressive value at that level.

 

[Stormonu]

That makes a bit more sense. My mistake. Although, to correct you as well, he did state that these were base scores without items.

I think the main reason I got confused is because these scores were specifically noted as rolled stats. If you're trying to build a villain specifically to counter players abilities, and are openly okay with fudging numbers as you see fit to do that, I don't understand why rolling is even a factor. Just give him the stats you need and be done with it. For that matter, you really don't even need to give him complete stats; give him the net bonuses he needs and be done with it.

Well, one thing to keep in mind is we don't know what race this villian is; that 19 Cha could be a 17 with a +2 racial bonus. Likewise, with it being 3E, at 20th level, the villian gets five +1 to stats.

When I was designing "heroic" monsters for 3E, I always used the stat array 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8. That's from the NPC section of the DMG, and 3E was all about designing monsters the same way you'd design player characters. (Personally, I liked 4E monster design better in that regard; designing high level NPCs in 3E by the rules is a nightmare - as I think this thread kinda shows).

 

[Ragmon]

Magic Missile, 'nuff said.

 

[Belzbet]

dispel magic can suppress magic items also antimagic will take his AC down a bit (no magic items work in antimagic)... Also, his AC is high so he shouldnt be easily taken down in melee BUT even though he may have SR and high saves, they wont be that high and spells can still affect him way easier than melee or ranged attacks that target AC... Ranged touch attacks are plentiful and powerful and many dont allow a save (his touch ac will be lower than his AC)... The melee guys will probably be like crap this guy is to hard to hit lets go after the wizard or something, this means that his AC isnt that important (if he is not being hit then his high defenses are moot)... The "big bad" spellcaster of the enemy party will try to target the monk to disable him, this may work it may not, its upto the rolls... But really if melee guys cant hit the monk they will stop trying unless they are mindless or something... This is coming from a DM that will allow MUCh more crazier than 50 AC, TWo of my PC's have 50+ AC when bolstered by magic (one a monk the other a nymph)... Yes those PC's HAVE NOT died (and other PC's have) BUT they do not do as much damage as other PC's... So it evens out... If your build is centered around high defenses then reward that build... But know that those builds are not impervious (antimagic, dispel, even disjunction, also most PC's DO HAVE a low save one way or another so spellcasters can capitalize off that, BUT this monk may not be very easily beat in toe to toe combat BUT it is his build, monks sacrifice damage for defense (also note as a DM its not our job to be able to kill ever PC. some are and will be more resilient, as a Dm it is in our power toi create a monster that can kill any and all PC's BUT this is not our job our job is to give fun and challenging encounters, if you dont feel you can challenge the monk then thinbk again antimagic and dispell as well as well placed spells that target low saves can do wonders, also some trinket spells dont allow saves at all (blasphemyn, holy word, etc come to mind) dont be afraid to unleash those spells on your OP PC's (they will like the challenge)... Alsoif the rest of the PC's feel challenged and if the monk feels powerless then youve done your job even if the monk isnt in peril of dieing (EXAMPLE: monk is dimension locked and forcecaged, it cant do nothing; EXAMPLE 2: monk is beating on a monster that doesnt seem to care that the monk is attacking it (high AC, DR, high HP, etc) but that monster is beating on the spellcaster or rogue (or any other PC that has lower AC)... The monk must act quick to defend his imperiled comrade and its defenses dont really matter... Obviously dont go out of your way to make the monks life miserable but in choice encounters monster tactics can mean the difference between a fun encounter and an average encounter.... Also as a note I think its funny this thread digressed into talk about the power level of the NPC's PC's (they have 19 CHA how?, 17 INT how? 24 DEX "impossible!"etc)... I allow much more then that, I let my PC's roll d20+5 for each ability for their starting array in a gestalt game and I can still easily challenge them (and it is VERY much possible to get at least 24 DEX AND 17 INT AND 19 CHA by level 16 thats for sure even by raw).... ANYWAY the opening threads question was about how to deal with it not how did it arise in the first place...

 

[Belzbet]

designing high level NPCs in 3E by the rules is a nightmare - as I think this thread kinda shows).

I think thats half the fun as a dm lol... No it does get tedious BUT you do learn to create quick and easy NPC's and monsters... And I actually do think its fun to create custom monsters and NPC's when i have the time....

 

[Empirate]

<snip>

Wall of Text
Illusion (Figment)

Level: Brd 1, Clr 1, Sor/Wiz 1
Components: S
Casting Time: 10 min
Range: touch
Target: one computer keyboard or one smartphone or tablet screen
Duration: "the internet does not forget"
Saving Throw: see text
Spell Resistance: no
​

By beating on a computer keyboard or a smartphone or tablet screen for the full casting time, you can conjure a powerful figment: a Wall of Text that just might have meaning, but the reader can never be entirely sure they didn't skip a line somewhere and missed something important.

On encountering the Wall of Text for the first time, potential readers make a Will save to avoid reading it. On a failure, the Wall of Text looks too enticing and must be read, which takes about 3 minutes. The reader must make a Concentration check (DC = 20, -1 per previous try). On a successful check, the reader thinks they "got the gist of it" and moves on. On a failure, the reader makes another Will save against the spell's DC. A successful save allows them to ignore the Wall of Text for the future; otherwise, they must try another Concentration check until either that or a Will save is successful.




HEY-o, made my save!