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how to describe "Greyhawk" to a new player?

Sunderstone

First Post
A'koss said:
And speaking of evil... In my view, a lot of a settings value is in the villains you fight in it. And Greyhawk has the bar none, the most impressive array of powerful villains of any of WotC's settings.

Iggwilv, Graz'zt, Acererak, Tharizdun, St. Kargoth, Iuz, Vecna, Kas, Lord Robilar (sorta), Eclavdra, Lolth (though FR basically stole her), the Princes of Elemental Evil, Demogorgon, Fraz'Urb'Luu, Tuerny the Merciless, Kyuss, the Queen of Chaos & Miska the Wolf-Spider. Even if you've never played Greyhawk, these names (at least most of them) are well-known to the D&D community.



That'll get you started anyway... :D

Dont forget Turosh Mak (not sure of the spelling), The Scarlet Brotherhood etc.

Also worth getting is the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer by Holian, Mona, Reynolds, and Weining. Its 3rd edition, but Ive been using it as my main setting book with some of the older accessories in PDF form.
 

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Maldin

First Post
I think A'koss summed it up quite nicely. Many of its regions are dark, forbidding places, with lots of styles of villians... from powerful rulers with regional or world domination on their minds, to loners with motives that are more difficult to interpret. There are good guys, like Bigby and Tenser, but they are not super-beings like some campaign worlds. They're just guys (well, more or less). Something PCs can actually aspire to.

Politics is important in some regions (and campaigns can easily be directed towards that flavor by DMs who like that sort of thing), and in others, the sword is what gets you through (for DMs who prefer that type of campaign). What I like about Greyhawk is what others call "generic" and "under-detailed"... DMs can make their Greyhawk campaign into whatever they want it to be, and not be concerned about their world being controlled by its personalities, meddling gods, and world-rending novels.

Denis, aka "Maldin"
Maldin's Greyhawk http://melkot.com
Loads of edition-independent Greyhawk goodness... maps, mysteries, magic, mechanics, and more!
 

billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him) 🇺🇦🇵🇸🏳️‍⚧️
Maldin said:
What I like about Greyhawk is what others call "generic" and "under-detailed"... DMs can make their Greyhawk campaign into whatever they want it to be, and not be concerned about their world being controlled by its personalities, meddling gods, and world-rending novels.

Definitely a strong selling point for the campaign with me as well. Greyhawk's general framework can host a whole heck of a lot of variety. I can exercise my creativity without having to do absolutely everthing myself, and that extends the amount I can do with my limited time.

EDIT:
I should really circle this around and bring it back to the original topic.
What all this means is that the Greyhawk your players game in may be different from other Greyhawks they encounter or read about on the internet... without either contradicting the written materials at all. So, many of the specific things they read about online may or may not apply to their own Greyhawk experiences.
 
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trollwad

First Post
what makes greyhawk greyhawk?

Four things:

1) To quote shakespeare "the play is the thing."

How'd we find out about drow? through an adventure series. Lolth and the EEG? The Slave Lords of the Pomarj? Tharizdun. Adventuring hints not 900 page cookbook setting handbook that'll never get used. Gygax was the ultimate seat of the pants DM. Do some research but you don't need to know everything, flesh YOUR world out in play. Within limits, let the characters go where they want and get involved in what they want.

2) PCs can die! Teach them to learn how to run or use stealth. What the hell does CR appropriate mean? Erik Mona's Whispering Cairn put a grossly unfair CR monster in a first level Adventure Path dungeon in Greyhawk. The PCs could have avoided it or escaped it but if they wanted to sit there and trade blows with an obviously more formidable foe, then they should be killed. Its your sacred duty as DM to kill them if they deserve it!

3) History matters. Look at the Greyhawk wiki through Canonfire. Read Holian's Living Greyhawk Gazeteer. All good Greyhawk adventures subtly and slowly build upon this long-played upon world's history. Learn who Iggwilv, Iuz, Grazzt, the Crook of Rao, Knights of Holy Shielding, Mayor Cobb Darg, and Tenser are. Watch how Holian, Mona and Jacobs carefully and respectfully take the legacy of Kuntz, Lakofka and Gygax and lovingly add a tweak here and there being receptive to audience feedback.

4) Have fun! Greyhawk has dungeons filled with monsters, at least one crashed alien spaceship, horse barbarians, islands with dinosaurs, vikings, cambion demigods ruling empires, paladins, historical cataclysms, powerful artifacts, militantly neutral druids and corrupt cities where thieves throng. The world is sparsely enough detailed yet broad enough that you find an area that your players like and develop it without clashing too much with existing canon.
 

WizarDru

Adventurer
Put simply, Greyhawk is what Gary Gygax considered D&D to be. Whenever he added something to the game, it was essentially Greyhawk he was adding it to. It was influenced by his favorite stories and settings. Greyhawk is, as mentioned, more of a 'Points of Light' game. There are not totally good or totally evil countries, though there are some powerful villains to be found. There are powerful heroes, too...but by and large, they try to avoid direct confrontation. There are heroes, to be sure...and organizations that care more about causes the alignments.

Greyhawk has what any good D&D setting has: ancient and abandoned ruins, fallen socities, evil empires, vast barbarian-filled wastelands, mighty cities, strange magics and mysterious powers. When mention is made that Gods don't normally walk Greyhawk...well, they mean that Generally, the powerful deities don't intervene by mutual pact, except through their agents. Plenty of the many, many demigods do their thang, good or evil. It could be someone as powerful as the demilich himself, Acererak or someone as helpful as the paladin cum demigod, Murlynd (she of the everfeeding spoon).

D&D's lexicon, pre-4e, is littered with Greyhawk references. Saltmarsh (and it's sinister secrets)? The Giants we fight Against? The Tomb of Horrors? The Slavers? The Hidden Shrine of Tamochan? The Apparatus of Kwalish? Bigby? Mordankanien? Otto? Tenser?

Greyhawk has grey layers, of course. The Knight Protectors of the Great Kingdom admit follower of Hextor or Heironeous with equal ease, should they vow to protect the Kingdom and follow the order's tenets. The city of Rel Deven is ruled by a Lich...but he is well loved and by most accounts a fine ruler. There are ancient elven kingdoms, dwarven strongholds, mixed nations and human societies that range from democratic collectives to old school monarchies to evil empires to nomadic barbarian hordes.

Greyhawk, put simply, is everything that D&D is. It can be exactly what you want it to be. No two Greyhawks are exactly the same....and that's the way that Gary intended it to be. It is, in some ways, the exact opposite of Faerun...where Faerun offers tons of detail for the DM to use, Greyhawk offers general ideas. Both are equally interesting approaches, but the reason that it's hard to say what Greyhawk IS owes to the fact that you won't get the same answer from two different DMs.

In my Greyhawk, for example, the God Ralishaz rose from relative obscurity to become the most powerful deity on the Prime, overseeing a host of Neutral Celestials called Judges, who enforced an edict known as the Interdiction, preventing long term summoning of creatures to the Prime. I'd wager no one else's Greyhawk is like that, nor features ancient beings called the Primals who are similar to the Titans of Greek Myth or feature a Triumvarite agreement by Corellion, Heironeous and Pelor. And that's fine, 'cuz that's how Greyhawk rolls. =)
 

Nifft

Penguin Herder
WizarDru said:
Greyhawk has what any good D&D setting has
... plus ridiculous names.

I mean really, "Verbobonc"? I can't even think it without mentally adding "banana-fana-fo-fonk".

The one thing modern settings have over Greyhawk is the general lack of guffaw-worthy names.

Still, that doesn't keep Greyhawk out of our games. We tend to play in a relaxed, joking style rather than deep immersion, so the laughable names aren't particularly an impediment to our fun.

Cheers, -- N
 

billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him) 🇺🇦🇵🇸🏳️‍⚧️
Nifft said:
... plus ridiculous names.

I mean really, "Verbobonc"? I can't even think it without mentally adding "banana-fana-fo-fonk".

The one thing modern settings have over Greyhawk is the general lack of guffaw-worthy names.

Still, that doesn't keep Greyhawk out of our games. We tend to play in a relaxed, joking style rather than deep immersion, so the laughable names aren't particularly an impediment to our fun.

Cheers, -- N

With the exception of some cringe-worthy character names like Gleep Wurp the Eyebiter, I don't have a problem with laughable place names. It's not like there aren't plenty out there in reality. There's Wip-ma-wop-ma-gate - the shortest street in York. Clap Hill Reservoir (GA). Tittisee (Germany). Cockplay (Scotland). Tightsqueeze (VA). Dildo (Newfoundland). Bong Recreational Area (WI). Nether Wallop (England). The Paps of Anu (Ireland).

With all those silly names out there, I don't give the ones in Greyhawk another glance.
 

Nifft

Penguin Herder
billd91 said:
I don't have a problem with laughable place names. It's not like there aren't plenty out there in reality.
Reality doesn't have to sound plausible. :\

"Picadilly to Cockfosters", -- N
 

jdrakeh

Front Range Warlock
billd91 said:
What all this means is that the Greyhawk your players game in may be different from other Greyhawks they encounter or read about on the internet... without either contradicting the written materials at all.

This has always been THE selling point for Greyhawk, as far as I am concerned. That said, the further you move away from the original folio or boxed set, the less likely that the above situation is to be true. Greyhawk does have canon and, when the entire body of later supplements is considered, the setting has quite a lot of canon.

While there is not as much Greyhawk canon as FR canon, there is enough to ensure that most visions of Greyhawk conceived of by fans in the last 20 years are remarkably smilar. Heck, liike FR, there are even several popular Greyhawk fan sites that deal specifically in sorting out the setting canon.

While I love the ideal of folio-only, individual, unique, Greyhawks. . . the reality is that, marginalized, canon-bound, "official" setting standards have come to replace that kind of Greyhawk (and that kind of FR, KoK, etc) as the standard for fantasy RPG settings today. And I hate that. :(
 
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