How to ease players into a sandbox style?

[Quickleaf]

I'm DMing for a new group (half are friends I've played with before, half are new friends), and now that we're a couple sessions in I realize they're used to more plotted/linear games. The deer in headlights looks, the uncertain pauses with sidelong glances at me, the long debates about what to do next. We all get along great, so that's not the issue. The trouble seems to happen when they're faced with making decisions. Thing is they also are enjoying that element of the game. My gut tells me they're just not used to more sandboxy games.

I was listening to Criticals Hits podcast #33 where Mike & Eric talk about sandboxing. Something Eric said really jumped out at me:

(paraphrasing) "With a group used to more linear plotted games, what you don't want to do is ask 'What do you want to do?' Because the answer is going to be 'Well we want to do what we're supposed to do'..."

He goes on to talk about the importance gradually easing these kinds of players into a sandbox.

So that's my question: For those of you who have done this or are in the process of doing it, HOW do you ease players accustomed to linear plot into a sandbox game?

 

[nedjer]

Maybe NPCs and news/ rumours serving-up choices with fairly obvious possibilities? E.g. arrive in town to talk of invasion, plus an invitation from an NPC who's off to colonise a newly discovered continent plus fears about a series of murders down the docks.

 

[the Jester]

I throw more options for adventure than they can possibly handle at them; that way they are forced to make an active choice, but don't have the "I haven't got a clue" problem.

 

[Nightson]

1. Makes strong ties between the characters making up the group. In linear games, you can sort of just go with the flow, in a sandbox game, you needs ties between the characters to stop everyone from just going off every which way after their own goals.

2. Character goals, character goal, character goals. These are the foundation of the sandbox. Without a goal, characters have no reason to interact with anything and players will sit there with no idea what to do because they have no goal to go for.

Despite the fact that these are character goals, you as the GM in a sandbox game need to be very involved in figuring out what these are.

Don't be afraid to assign a character goal to start off during character creation. Monitor the other goals to make sure there isn't a deeply conflicting goal, or one you see as impossible to achieve. Try and make sure that characters have a mix of short, medium and long term goals. Try and make sure that multiple characters different goals can be worked at during the same session.

You might also have players who aren't really interested in having their own goals, it's possible to be entirely okay playing to help out another player's goal, just make sure #1 is there to help explain why they're helping.

Your players will get better at devising goals without you as time goes on, but you're going to have to do extra work to get them started on that path.

 

[Gilladian]

In a sandbox, you need to have a fairly detailed world starting point. You can use that to help show the players their options AND some of the possible results of those options.

Don't just say "oh, you can explore the dungeon of dread, or visit the ruins of rebellion or hunt for the Grey Monster in slithy swamp." They'll stare at you with a blank look and debate endlessly.

Instead, offer them: "the bard at the Inn tells a tale of three green adventurers who entered the dungeons of dread in search of Sir Silver's lost bow. Unfortunately, the Dire Rats of Doom who dwell there inflicted horrible diseases upon them with every bite."

"The ruins of the castle on the hill belonged to a rebellious duke who tried to murder the king during his coronation a hundred years ago. It is said that the ghosts of his Duchess and children, who burned to death when the castle was razed, still haunt the East Tower."

"The Grey Monster of Slithy Swamp is the bane of merchants who try to take the short road through them each summer. In winter the Grey Monster sleeps, but by late spring each year, it begins to prowl, and does not rest again until the first hard freeze."

This gives the PCs some clear indications of WHAT they'd be getting into in each scenario. It's the wrong time of year for the Grey Monster, but that might mean the swamp is a GOOD place for them to go now, hunting for the herbs the town Alchemist wants. Later, then, they'll know the swamps lesser dangers when they choose to hunt the Grey Monster. Etcetera.

 

[Quickleaf]

Maybe NPCs and news/ rumours serving-up choices with fairly obvious possibilities? E.g. arrive in town to talk of invasion, plus an invitation from an NPC who's off to colonise a newly discovered continent plus fears about a series of murders down the docks.

I throw more options for adventure than they can possibly handle at them; that way they are forced to make an active choice, but don't have the "I haven't got a clue" problem.

Er, let me emphasize the easing the players in I think part of the response I'm getting is from presenting too many open options at once. The "job board" approach works great for established sandbox groups, but we need training wheel before we go there.

1. Makes strong ties between the characters making up the group. In linear games, you can sort of just go with the flow, in a sandbox game, you needs ties between the characters to stop everyone from just going off every which way after their own goals.

Despite the fact that these are character goals, you as the GM in a sandbox game need to be very involved in figuring out what these are.

Yeah I think theyre finding their characters as they play. Since overall they're not used to coming up with strong goals (with a few exceptions), I'm treating their PCs (concepts & stats) as kitchen orders for what they'd like served.

Don't be afraid to assign a character goal to start off during character creation. Monitor the other goals to make sure there isn't a deeply conflicting goal, or one you see as impossible to achieve. Try and make sure that characters have a mix of short, medium and long term goals. Try and make sure that multiple characters different goals can be worked at during the same session.

Yep I started them off with a goal, which is tied to the overarching story. Yes, I just said "story" in reference to a sandbox game.

In a sandbox, you need to have a fairly detailed world starting point. You can use that to help show the players their options AND some of the possible results of those options.

Don't just say "oh, you can explore the dungeon of dread, or visit the ruins of rebellion or hunt for the Grey Monster in slithy swamp." They'll stare at you with a blank look and debate endlessly.

Instead, offer them: <snip>.

Heh. It's funny because I do very much the same thing as you describe with your examples, and regardless there's lots of hesitation.

My assumption is there's something I as DM need to do to help facilitate their decision making.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Fly! *Boot!*

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMpXUd_kesA]Dammit, I said Fly! Not Fall![/ame]

Just joking.

Let them know that they get to decide what to do, that there are things to do, but they will have to find the adventures for themselves.

People talking in the pub, then falling silent, scowling at the PCs helps, especially if those folks then pay their tab and leave.

The Auld Grump, PCs will follow those people.... A good way to introduce the bandits that are harassing the area.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Have each player write down one or two things (beyond the obvious wealth,fame, and fortune) that thier character is really interested in or causes that he/she feels strongly about.

A magic user might be be very interested in searching for ancient lost magical power. A fighter might be a former gladiator and now seeks to stamp out the oppression of slavery wherever it is found.

A couple of these bits of flavor from each player will give you things to work with, to build into adventures that are of meaning to the players instead of just another quest assigned by an npc. What you want to get rolling is a sense of self motivation.

Mix in these personal draws with the regular adventures you have set up in the area. Eventually your players will be drawn into adventure opportunities for reasons they probably never envisioned at the outset. Getting a chance to pursue personal goals is addictive. Once they have a taste for it you might find them developing new desires on thier own.

Self motivated players are joy to run a campaign for. Good luck.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

IME, self-motivating players can be more of a pain than a bonus. The DM needs to ensure the players have compatible goals, and in effect needs to railroad character generation. Afterward, there shouldn't be a need.

In the best "sandbox" game I've been in, only two players tried to provide direction or shared goals. The other players going along prevented distracting arguments and "competing for DM time" which I've seen sink so many sandbox campaigns.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

Er, let me emphasize the easing the players in I think part of the response I'm getting is from presenting too many open options at once. The "job board" approach works great for established sandbox groups, but we need training wheel before we go there.

If they seem to be suffering from option induced paralysis, try cutting out a few of their 'open' options from time to time.

When the players have the choice between the haunted forest, the brigand's camp, the corrupt vizier, and the lost ruin, they may not have a good idea which one of those they want to do, but they will eventually pick one of them... When they finally decide to go into the lost ruin, make sure that they discover on their return that some other adventurers have discredited the corrupt vizier (or whatever).

After they get down to what appears to be a manageable number of options, then start tossing some more trouble their way. Eventually, the number of options that that they will be able to handle should grow quite large.