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How to ease players into a sandbox style?

IME, self-motivating players can be more of a pain than a bonus. The DM needs to ensure the players have compatible goals, and in effect needs to railroad character generation. Afterward, there shouldn't be a need.

In the best "sandbox" game I've been in, only two players tried to provide direction or shared goals. The other players going along prevented distracting arguments and "competing for DM time" which I've seen sink so many sandbox campaigns.

Not all goals have to be compatible in order to not be conflicting. In the course of a campaign there should be time for eveyone's various goals to get some attention.

If you have "all me all the time" players then the problem is with the people and has nothing to with the goals of a fictional persona.
 

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Greg K

Legend
[MENTION=66434]ExploderWizard[/MENTION]
Unfortunately, I can't give you XP about there being time for everyone's goals.

Can someone XP ExploderWizard for me?
 

A

amerigoV

Guest
I never understood why people portray a Sandbox world as the players having all the choices. If they are in a small port, why wouldn't a press gang or slavers try to beat the crap out of the PCs, capture them, and sail off? Just because it is a Sandbox does not mean the world around the PC is passive (ie, its not just a bunch of NPCs standing around with a ! over their head; heh - thats the problem with Sandboxes - too WOW-like :))

Now, the PCs do not have to follow the initial incident to its very end, but I see no reason that the GM cannot "kick in the door" and see how the players/PCs react, especially early in the campaign. Ignoring some of the events just means the world changes, evolves, and bards sing about the wusses that bravely ran away...
 
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Quickleaf

Legend
[MENTION=26651]amerigoV[/MENTION]
It's funny you say that because a large part of how I'm running this sandbox game involves adaptating to what the PCs do or do not do. We're only a couple sessions in and already three plots are developing without the PCs' interference, so that when they return to town (er, Sigil in this case) they'll have some catching up to do.

I'm not sure where you got the impression that "sandbox" means a strictly reactive or passive setting, but that's certainly not how I think of it.
 


Saint Mac

First Post
2. Character goals, character goal, character goals. These are the foundation of the sandbox. Without a goal, characters have no reason to interact with anything and players will sit there with no idea what to do because they have no goal to go for.

TOTALLLY Agree! Looking at your description of your group, I would (just my thoughts) take part of the backstory of the less experienced players and develope a simple one-off from it. Save the famly farm or find something their town needs type of thing.

Why use a new members' backstory or goal? Well, your more experienced players will be more apt to pitch in to help them (and you). Do it the other way around and your less experienced players will just follow like a pup.

So talk to one of the newer players and have them describe their character's backstory or goal. I suggest a phone or one-on-one convo with this person. If your group is ANYTHING like mine, your experienced players will know EXACTLY what your up to.

Also, using a cool font, write a note that this new player's character recieves to intro the one-off. Props are still fun even if they aren't elaborate.

Hope that helps a bit!
 

Rune

Once A Fool
Don't plot. Hook!

Seriously, I know you said that you don't want to overload the players with options, but consider this:

  • Get some index cards and a box. Write down some relevant plot-hooks (one per card) and put them in the box. During the campaign, add more plot-hooks to the box as they come to you.
  • When you want to get them motivated, draw a card and lay a plot-hook on them. Don't worry if they don't bite; just throw another plot-hook out there (so far, exactly what you don't want to do, I know; but hang on, it gets better!).
  • When they don't bite on a hook, make a note on the card about how the PCs ignored it and what the repercussions are--and throw it back in the box!
  • The next time you draw that card, it's not just an intriguing hook. This time, the adventure comes looking for the PCs!
 

Quickleaf

Legend
This would be worth a read for you -

ars ludi Grand Experiments: West Marches
Thanks Mark, I'm halfway through the blog and it's great! I actually started what is essentially a table map for this game (we're playing Planescape so 'geography' is a bit different).

Not sure how the big group of players who schedule games translates, but all in all a good read.

TOTALLLY Agree! Looking at your description of your group, I would (just my thoughts) take part of the backstory of the less experienced players and develope a simple one-off from it. Save the famly farm or find something their town needs type of thing.
Oh everyone has quite a bit of experience with D&D; I meant players who are new to me personally, not gaming. It is more a gaming style thing, not so much an experience thing.

Don't plot. Hook!

Seriously, I know you said that you don't want to overload the players with options, but consider this:

  • Get some index cards and a box. Write down some relevant plot-hooks (one per card) and put them in the box. During the campaign, add more plot-hooks to the box as they come to you.
  • When you want to get them motivated, draw a card and lay a plot-hook on them. Don't worry if they don't bite; just throw another plot-hook out there (so far, exactly what you don't want to do, I know; but hang on, it gets better!).
  • When they don't bite on a hook, make a note on the card about how the PCs ignored it and what the repercussions are--and throw it back in the box!
  • The next time you draw that card, it's not just an intriguing hook. This time, the adventure comes looking for the PCs!
Oh yeah I do this automatically, not specifically with the index card method, but to the same effect. I agree it's a good technique.
 

howandwhy99

Adventurer
So that's my question: For those of you who have done this or are in the process of doing it, HOW do you ease players accustomed to linear plot into a sandbox game?

Some players see that they are in Disney World and immediately run to the nearest thing they see. Some scan around and then talk about what to do first. Some ask what the itinerary says.

There are lots of ways to move players accustomed to questing and follow the path play to a self-directed and proactive form of play. Here are a few when starting a campaign:

1. Begin them in the middle of an adventure module where they have an adventure long objective. This could be "defend the town from the winter wolves as we evacuate" or "Stop whatever is ambushing the merchants along the road". As they go about their business a world laden with more adventure should pique their interests in what else they may want to do based on what they've seen available and their own desires.

2. Run your first session as campaign brewing session. As the players work together to create their PCs, either alone or in group(s), they can also determine for you what kind of world they want to go exploring in. This is a staple of homebrewing where the world is created for each campaign. Players may ask for types of adventures they like to engage in and even point to a few published ones to include too (as options). As PCs are created they can integrate them into the setting they want to be in as well. Just remember that D&D accepts all types, so you might have an Al-Qadim like world with a lot of nearby Babylonian and Egyptian tombs to explore, but half of the players have opted for more English countryside fantasy races. Let it fly, and let them tell you what their starting goals are.

3. Give the PCs authority over a group of NPCs who all have their own objectives. This moves the PCs from the role of initiators to defenders of those who are not seeking adventure, but have goals where such challenges seem unavoidable. This is kind of "learn through watching others be the goal setters" with the PCs being asked to do all the heavy lifting. This also puts them in the position of "how would we do this differently". Eventually, however, these guys must be moved to associates as they "allow" the PCs to take charge.

3a. If you're just looking to give the PCs a band of NPCs to be in charge of, that can get them going as well as they bask in their new found power. This is more of a type 1 starter adventure though.

Here are a few elements each of these approaches have in common:

1. Start them as a group with a common goal where working together is needed to accomplish it.

2. Give them a lot of rope so they can determine their owns means of accomplishing this goal.

3. Don't require the goal to be accomplished to continue the game. Interweave the world together so the orcs know of the goblins and the town and the wandering nomad clan. Basically, give them an integrated history and potential future and let the players explore seamlessly from each element to the next and they will leave the starting ground of their own accord.

4. Do not give them missions beyond a campaign starting mission. (But I guess them seeking out an NPC for one would be okay) Let them follow up from the starting goals or even generate new goals for themselves, like "I ask the barkeep if she's heard of some place haunted around here." Check your map for undead and give them the known rumor.

5. Allow each player to determine when they want to act privately or independently, but remind them that the game is based on group play and solo adventuring is very dangerous. That is unless you are willing to run solo games. The team play of learning how to trade off / find shared goals is a big part of the game.
 

S'mon

Legend
I think the best approach is 'bangs' that require a reaction, but leave the nature of that reaction open. This can help ease the PCs into making decisions.

Secondly: simple choices, making it clear that the PCs can't do everything. The simplest is the open dungeon with different pathways. Left or right.

Thirdly: encourage character goals. Don't force them, but reward proactive play with success. If one PC comes up with proactive goals, let him enjoy the spotlight time. If the others want spotlight time too, they can step on up.

Related to that - I'm having a bit of trouble in one of my sandboxes: I aked the players to provide character goals. Rather than engage with the actually presented setting, several players sent me "big magic item" - it rather looked like rather than go out & look for something, they expect me to create the maguffins and then provide them with a clear path/linear adventure to acquisition of them. I think there's a bit of a trap there; I'm coming to think that asking players for PC goals in a sandbox game may not be such a good idea. I'm wondering how to say 'I want goals that don't depend on me creating particular content for you'.
 

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