How to Evil Properly?

[hawkeyefan]

Are you saying most PCs are evil?

Maybe @Fauchard1520 would like to specify which "evil" he/she's referencing?

Christian evil: breaks commandments, related to or influenced by the Devil

D&D evil: an inherent quality, like a taint, that is objective and usually involves hurting others

Popular evil: doing actions most people would find disagreeable

Selfish intent (personal favorite): being evil is being self-serving. Like, luring unwary forum goers into a webcomic, or a free RPG...

Are most PCs evil is a good question....they basically make their living killing and stealing. But there have been a ton of threads about that, and that’s not really what I was operating on. I meant more along the lines of what you described as Popular Evil.

We’re not specifically talking about D&D, I don’t think, although as always it’s the most ready touchstone. I think that alignment can often become a tail that wags the dog.

I’m saying don’t let alignment....or even just the label of “evil”...dictate your character’s behavior. It should be a description of the character, not a predetermined list of decisions they’ll make.

Alignment (or any descriptor) is, in my opinion, best used as a description after the fact rather than as a path to follow.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Make sure all the TPS reports have the proper covers on them??

 

[Fenris-77]

Make sure all the TPS reports have the proper covers on them??

That's a new level of evil. Not only the stuff of nightmares, but the stuff that tears parties apart at the seams. You're a bad person and should feel bad.

 

[Fauchard1520]

Lawful Evil tends to be the best alignment for Evil protagonists. You're the guy (or gal) who is prepared to get your hands dirty for 'the greater good'.

Murder, torture, ultra violence, and a lack of pity, mercy and remorse... but coupled with a code that places you above normal villains (you dont harm 'innocents' for example).

Arya Stark, Frank Castle, Carol (TWD) etc are all examples of this trope.

Is there a similar list of chaotic evil protagonists? I'm wracking my brain to think of any that would actually work as PCs without going in for the obnoxious wanton destruction thing.

 

[Flamestrike]

Is there a similar list of chaotic evil protagonists?

Rick Sanchez (Rick and Morty). The Hound (GoT) before Arya left him to die. Titus Pullo (HBO'S Rome). Best friends to the (very LN) Lucius Vorenus.

Anyone who holds no real code, is angry at the world at large, is unconventional, impulsive, reckless and/or headstrong (Chaotic) and also holds little or no qualms about hurting other people (Evil).

If you think about it, you probably know people like this in real life.

The problem with CE is most immature nerds play CE like Kharn the Betrayer, the Joker or Ramsay Bolton. Burning down an orphanage or the tavern 'just because' or murdering some NPC over a few coppers. People like that dont exist (or if they do, they are completely deranged).

Play your CE protagonist as someone who is angry or disillusioned at the world, and sees laws, a code, and honour as weakness. They value their own individualism, and dont care who they harm in the process.

To add dimensions to them, give them a reason for their outlook. Rick Sanchez caused the death of his wife, which has led him to be the nihilist he is. The Hound was badly abused as a child, and came to hate the world and how it worked. Bonus points if you also give them a redeeming feature. The Hound for example has genuine empathy for Sansa (and later Arya), seeing in her a mirror of himself and shielding her from abuse, while also holding a genuine affection for her.

Of course, the Hound being the Hound, he then tries to teach both Sansa and Arya how to stop having honor, stop caring about the world, look after yourself, and kill whoever gets in your way for a few silvers or a roof for the night (the outlook he himself developed to survive when he was alone and being victimised).

Give your PC a reason for their bleak outlook, and within that reason, you'll find places where you can explore your PCs darkness in a way that doesnt involve 'kill, main, burn' and may involve some actual depth to your PC.

 

[Legatus Legionis]

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[Flamestrike]

Other than role playing a Paladin/Anti-Paladin, and their required tithe, does any player give their acquired wealth to help others (unless you are RP'n Robin Hood, etc.)

How many times have we all seen (as DM's) players mercilessly slaughtering whatever they happen to come across, torturing survivors for information (before butchering them also) and then when you query them on their alignment they look up at you with a straight face and say 'Lawful/ Neutral/ Chaotic Good'.

''But DM... it's a good act to murder and torture these guys, coz they're eviiil.''

Sadly a fair few players tend to play CE characters in any event, even when they have LG or something similar written on their character sheets.

 

[The Monster]

The few times I've played evil player characters (our group rarely plays games with official alignments, and all-but-never plays villains), I've gone the cold-hearted selfish route, rather than puppy-kicking. The goal is power and wealth, and the members of your party are the most convenient and reliable tools to get there, so you don't mess with them until and unless they become a significant liability - they make decent meat shields if nothing else. And it's not helpful to leave an obvious trail of criminal carnage when traveling through town, as it will only make things difficult later, when you need resources or contacts in that town (again, until and unless the townsfolk become a significant obstacle, in which case you destroy the town, not just hack up a few random mundanes).
In practical terms, if there's no alignment magic (e.g., detect evil), the difference in the way I play it is a strong resistance to sharing resources, being more prickly about splitting party loot, and not caring if a plan involves collateral damage. In a setting with reasonably developed social settings, their background behavior is likely to be much more exploitative than most of my character (for example, the shopkeeper I ran in Deadlands for a little while was quite willing to deal in all manner of illegal and immoral business).

 

[Fenris-77]

The thing about evil alignments is thaqt they can great for role play if handled well. If you have a character who wants to change and is struggling against their nature, that's some strong roleplaying, when done right. I suspect that that's not why a lot of people want ot play evil though, which IMO has more to do with validating their murderhobo tendencies than it does anything else.

 

[Fauchard1520]

Rick Sanchez (Rick and Morty). The Hound (GoT) before Arya left him to die. Titus Pullo (HBO'S Rome). Best friends to the (very LN) Lucius Vorenus.

Loving The Hound as a go-to example. I especially like that he's got some loyalty to a House Lannister built into his character. I think that sort of metaphorical leash is useful with the archetype, even if it doesn't feel very Chaotic conceptually. Cheers!