How to fix the Silence Spell?

[Hawkshadow]

That's an interesting tactic your players are using. I think the real problem is your players have found a good tactic and are over-using it. You only have to foil the tactic a few times to get the players working on a new tactic.

Here's one way you could tweak the next encounter without changing the stats on anything (or changing the rules). What if stuff is obscuring the location of the NPC spell caster? Since they are in a dungeon, there's going to be lots of echoing, so they won't be able to pinpoint the location of the NPC through sound. If they can't locate the NPC spellcaster, then they're just going to be guessing about where to put the silence spell.

 

[Gansk]

Every Creature in the area is deafened. Ok... kinda works... except that it doesn't stop anyone outside the field from hearing what's in it.... now you can't use it to cover up the sound of the barbarian hacking down a door. I don't like the way it changes the usefulness of the spell... it makes it into an almost purely combat oriented spell.

Let me expand upon the every creature is deafened idea, as it is the one that I am favoring right now.

Silence is a glamer, which is supposed to change "a subject's sensory qualities", in this case an area's sound qualities. In the case of invisibility, which is also a glamer, the subject's visual qualities are such that everyone looking at is "fooled" into not seeing it, even though it is really there. I allow invisible targets to see themselves so they can walk, read scrolls, etc., so the illusion hides the reality from everyone else.

Extrapolate this idea to Silence. The sound in the area exists, but no one can hear it, either inside or outside. This keeps the other uses of silence intact, but when a spellcaster casts a spell with verbal components, he can't hear himself say anything, so there is always a 20% chance of spell failure. But the sound exists and can invoke the magic if it is spoken properly.

The other consequence of this extrapolation is that spells that cause physical sonic energy damage are not prevented by Silence, since the sound vibrations still exist. I don't see that as a big deal, since Protection from Energy is still a good counter to a sonic attack, and sonic attacks are quite rare in the first place.

 

[Goolpsy]

Well, Using a readyaction to cast the spell, Isn't it jsut like "holding a charge", Like:
"Im gonna cast this fireball at him if he gets closer" and he is holding a red charge/spark.. so the spell is alredy casted, he is jsut waiting to release it.

Likewise the opponent spellcaster would be able to notice it, i.e. making a spellcraft against it, and change taktic rendering the Mage's Action useless.

Do remember that the players cant talk if they are within the area of the spell (flavor) and the characters wouldn't be able to do it. Furthermore a mage using one of his turns without really doing much, is giving the monster more rounds to live. There is far more dangerous spell in EVERY book containing spells...

 

[radferth]

The easiest (and lamest, IMHO) fix is simply to state that Silence does not prevent verbal components and command words from functioning. A caster in silence has a chance for failure as if he was deafened. This makes it not a sure thing, but still a viable tactic. I've never seen the exact tactic you descibe done anywhere else. I assume that the character casting the silence does not feel particularly threatened by whatever is going on the combat. You might try pressing the rear of the party more, so the character does not feel free to sit back and wait to see if the opposition casts a spell while doing nothing else.

 

[HellHound]

(double post)

 

[HellHound]

That's an interesting tactic your players are using. I think the real problem is your players have found a good tactic and are over-using it. You only have to foil the tactic a few times to get the players working on a new tactic.

Here's one way you could tweak the next encounter without changing the stats on anything (or changing the rules). What if stuff is obscuring the location of the NPC spell caster? Since they are in a dungeon, there's going to be lots of echoing, so they won't be able to pinpoint the location of the NPC through sound. If they can't locate the NPC spellcaster, then they're just going to be guessing about where to put the silence spell.

But if they -do- engage the caster directly in combat, then the issue returns. The problem is that the tactic -is- too effective once you have line of sight with the target. As soon as you see he's casting a spell, you fire off silence, and the spell is countered. Since there wasn't a silence in effect when the casting began, no spellcaster would be using silent spell in a typical combat... Then the next round either the caster gets out of the area, or casts the silent Dispel Magic, either way, that's two rounds of wasted spellcasting.

Personally, I've used this tactic against PCs a few times in the past, but stopped because I didn't want them using it also - it is indeed too effective, IMO. Thus, I also agree that the casting time should be increased to 1 round.

 

[Scion]

It is an 'incredibly' effective tactic. There are a few extra ways which make it even more broken.

Still though, in my games I do the same as a previous poster, I treat it like the illusion that it says that it is. Effectively you are deaf while in the area, 20% chance to lose a spell when casting.

To me that puts it directly in line with the power level it should be as a 2nd level spell.

 

[Gansk]

I'm resurrecting this thread to get input on another way to fix the silence spell.

How about this?

The silence spell functions more like an invisibility sphere. Anybody inside the silence area can hear each other normally, but they can't hear anything outside the area. Vice-versa for anybody outside the area. Thus sonic and language-dependent spells are ineffective if they cross the area's boundary, but all other spells with verbal components can be cast normally.

 

[Cheiromancer]

I think the idea you suggest in post 12 (everyone inside is deafened and inaudible) is best. I concur that it would allow sonic effects to do damage (if they work against deaf opponents). They still cause vibrations, but the vibrations are inaudible. Otherwise you are making a zone of sonic resistance infinity, which is too much for a second level spell.

Your suggestion in post 18 would allow team-mates to communicate with each other, which is too divergent from the existing spell.

 

[dedicated]

Well, Using a readyaction to cast the spell, Isn't it jsut like "holding a charge", Like:
"Im gonna cast this fireball at him if he gets closer" and he is holding a red charge/spark.. so the spell is alredy casted, he is jsut waiting to release it.

Likewise the opponent spellcaster would be able to notice it, i.e. making a spellcraft against it, and change taktic rendering the Mage's Action useless.

Nope, it works absolutely nothing like that