How to get younger players into PnP RPG's
Krensky
First Post
This is the funniest thing I've read all morning. Thank you.
jdrakeh
Front Range Warlock
QFT. I know that if my introduction to PnP role-playing games had been through something as rule-intensive as D&D 3x or Rolemaster, I would have playd a few sessions, walked away, and never looked back. Now, today, I like both of those systems — but as a total newb, what I wanted was a simple leisure activity, not a time and resource intensive hobby pursuit.
Mustrum_Ridcully
Hero
People read less? I am not sure that is true, especially today. If you're browsing the web, you're reading (and writing) a lot. You don't read the bible, sci-fi novels or history books, but you do read a lot in chats, message boards, blogs and even in your typical MMO (quest infos, chats).
Also, I am certain that a lot of MMOs and other video games promote not just button-klicking, but also understanding the mechanics of the game or at least figuring out which set of abilities gives you the most DPR (which typically involves math.)
I tend to believe that we overhtink too much when discussing why we play, how to play or who plays, we should focus more on just playing.
And this also applies to "young gamers" - If you want young people to play, invite them to play. Have a kid in your WoW guild that seems as if it might also be a good table-top player - invite it to a play-by-post/chat game, or a game with one of the virtual game tables. If it's in your neighborhood, invite it your regular game.
You could also slowly draw people in - start with regular card games, than some board games, and than introduce them to D&D. Avoid overwhelming the player - make a short, one session game that allows for more, but doesn't demand it.
Talk about your hobby like you would about any other hobby. If you're playing WoW, you might occasionally chat about other games you also play - why not also D&D?
Don't preemptively defend yourself against stereotypes. If people bring up stereotypes, don't dwell on it. It might be enough to point out a stereotype of whatever he usually does (be it sports, World of Warcraft, blondes, Hispanic, math, whatever).
In the end, face one thing: You won't draw in everyone. But neither does World of Warcraft, Baseball or Seinfeld.
But I am not convinced that RPGs are a dying hobby. It grants me an experience other games do not, so it will always have a place. RPGs might get a smaller share because there are so many options, but that doesn't mean they die out.
Also, I am certain that a lot of MMOs and other video games promote not just button-klicking, but also understanding the mechanics of the game or at least figuring out which set of abilities gives you the most DPR (which typically involves math.)
I tend to believe that we overhtink too much when discussing why we play, how to play or who plays, we should focus more on just playing.
And this also applies to "young gamers" - If you want young people to play, invite them to play. Have a kid in your WoW guild that seems as if it might also be a good table-top player - invite it to a play-by-post/chat game, or a game with one of the virtual game tables. If it's in your neighborhood, invite it your regular game.
You could also slowly draw people in - start with regular card games, than some board games, and than introduce them to D&D. Avoid overwhelming the player - make a short, one session game that allows for more, but doesn't demand it.
Talk about your hobby like you would about any other hobby. If you're playing WoW, you might occasionally chat about other games you also play - why not also D&D?
Don't preemptively defend yourself against stereotypes. If people bring up stereotypes, don't dwell on it. It might be enough to point out a stereotype of whatever he usually does (be it sports, World of Warcraft, blondes, Hispanic, math, whatever).
In the end, face one thing: You won't draw in everyone. But neither does World of Warcraft, Baseball or Seinfeld.
But I am not convinced that RPGs are a dying hobby. It grants me an experience other games do not, so it will always have a place. RPGs might get a smaller share because there are so many options, but that doesn't mean they die out.
Mournblade94
Adventurer
This is true, but reading the social message boards on the internet and chat is a recipe for breeding very bad writing and reading habits. Comprehension and writing skill has been declining with this new generation of high schoolers. There are plenty of studies for it, though I cannot provide links.
As an educator I see how negative an effect the internet and chat has had on writing. The GENERAL level high school student has trouble differentiating between proper writing on chat and proper formal writing. Numerous studies show that the internet is not a substitute for quality reading (Think of the sites most high school students are going to view.) Websites are also being designed with less text in mind and more graphics. Web marketers are moving towards more bells nad whistles, and visual information rather than written material.
The education system has dumbed down tests and the New York times has dumbed down its reading level to about an eight grade level.
This is more of a function of trial and error more so than any sort of calculation. Even so, DPS calculations are no more complex than figuring out speed and acceleration equations. I don't think this thread is discussing WOW as the end of table top gaming though. I think WOW is good for the gaming hobby even though I do not play it. (and my objection comes not from the game itself but the fact that if I start playing it, I might do it too much, and stop otehr activities I like such as reading.)
By far the best way to get them to play. If they are interested in WOW for the source material there is very little reason they would not find enjoyment with table top RPGs.
I don't think this is a good way to introduce players. RPG's are a different kind of game. I could not imagine bringing the guys from work over to play D&D.
If you are talking about warcraft than D&D is probably a safe conversation. Otherwise I only talk about D&D in certain company.
Stereotypes are there for a reason anyway. There usually is some seed of truth based within stereotypes, that is why they exist in the first place.
WOW has it easier because the intellectual energy required to play is much less. It is much easier to get someone to have fun playing a highly visual game, rather than retain someone that is playing a game requiring abstract thought. You reach more population with the easier activity.
I doubt it will die out. I do think the competition for it however will make it far less influential in the scifi, horror, fantasy subculture.
I'm going to de-lurk briefly to respond to this topic. 
First of all, hello everyone!
I'm of the opinion that the means to grow the hobby already exists and it's in the form of the various virtual game tables (Fantasy Grounds, Map Tools, Klooge, Battlegrounds, etc.) that are available. These tools are a medium that is already familiar to many, many people in the world. They'd be using a computer to play a game which many people are already very familiar with. It'd just be a matter of saying something like, "We're going to be playing a game through the computer. It's kind of like World of Warcraft, but you can do anything you want. When you reach the end of Naxxramas and slay Kel'thuzad, he stays dead, and your actions might set off another chain of events that will require you to do something equally as heroic!"
You can easily gather people from all over the world and focus on setting up a virtual session that really highlights all the fun of D&D. The players don't have to overly focus on the rules because the virtual game tables can take care of most of them with some pre-work by the GM of course. Think of it as a gateway drug; once people have tons of fun in one session they're going to want more. They'll buy the books to be better prepared for their next session, they might visit their local game store to buy the books and learn about other games. They might tell their friends about all the fun they're having, and so on.
The mainstream already accepts people getting together over the Internet to play MMORPGs. It's not seen as anything strange. Playing D&D over the Internet would also might lessen the social stigma that is often associated with playing D&D. You're not out in the woods swinging foam swords at each other (a stereotype that somehow has become very much associated with playing D&D nowadays), you're playing games online.
I know that many people might deride playing D&D over a virtual game table isn't really playing RPGs as they're meant to be played; around a table, drinking soda, eating chips, razzing each other, etc. However, having run a few online campaigns I can say that the feeling of socialization still exists, especially if you're using a Ventrilo, Teamspeak, or Skype to communicate. No, it may not be the ideal, but who is to say that those who start playing it online won't migrate to playing in their kitchens and living rooms when they find out how much fun it is and show it to their friends?
I really feel that WotC is shooting themselves in the foot by not getting their DDI Game Table up and running as fast as possible. Heck, if they could somehow get a deal going with Blizzard and make a WoW version of the 4th Edition rules that could be played virtually on the DDI game table I think you'd see tons of interest from WoW players, both young and old, that have never tried D&D before.
My rambling two cents, sorry about the length.
First of all, hello everyone!I'm of the opinion that the means to grow the hobby already exists and it's in the form of the various virtual game tables (Fantasy Grounds, Map Tools, Klooge, Battlegrounds, etc.) that are available. These tools are a medium that is already familiar to many, many people in the world. They'd be using a computer to play a game which many people are already very familiar with. It'd just be a matter of saying something like, "We're going to be playing a game through the computer. It's kind of like World of Warcraft, but you can do anything you want. When you reach the end of Naxxramas and slay Kel'thuzad, he stays dead, and your actions might set off another chain of events that will require you to do something equally as heroic!"
You can easily gather people from all over the world and focus on setting up a virtual session that really highlights all the fun of D&D. The players don't have to overly focus on the rules because the virtual game tables can take care of most of them with some pre-work by the GM of course. Think of it as a gateway drug; once people have tons of fun in one session they're going to want more. They'll buy the books to be better prepared for their next session, they might visit their local game store to buy the books and learn about other games. They might tell their friends about all the fun they're having, and so on.
The mainstream already accepts people getting together over the Internet to play MMORPGs. It's not seen as anything strange. Playing D&D over the Internet would also might lessen the social stigma that is often associated with playing D&D. You're not out in the woods swinging foam swords at each other (a stereotype that somehow has become very much associated with playing D&D nowadays), you're playing games online.
I know that many people might deride playing D&D over a virtual game table isn't really playing RPGs as they're meant to be played; around a table, drinking soda, eating chips, razzing each other, etc. However, having run a few online campaigns I can say that the feeling of socialization still exists, especially if you're using a Ventrilo, Teamspeak, or Skype to communicate. No, it may not be the ideal, but who is to say that those who start playing it online won't migrate to playing in their kitchens and living rooms when they find out how much fun it is and show it to their friends?
I really feel that WotC is shooting themselves in the foot by not getting their DDI Game Table up and running as fast as possible. Heck, if they could somehow get a deal going with Blizzard and make a WoW version of the 4th Edition rules that could be played virtually on the DDI game table I think you'd see tons of interest from WoW players, both young and old, that have never tried D&D before.
My rambling two cents, sorry about the length.
WoW is attractive because it can be played whenever a person has spare time, unlike pen-and-paper RPG's which require several people to coordinate their schedules. Never underestimate the power of a low barrier to entry.
And now, poetry...
Man hands on nerdery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any little nerds yourself.
(apologies to Philip Larkin)
I was introduced to D&D back in the 1980s by a high school friend whose dad had introduced him to the game. Later on, I participated in gaming groups that included the children of friends. I imagine the passing on of D&D, and tabletop RPG'ing in general will continue much as it always has.
Intense_Interest
First Post
The only way to establish a foothold of D&D, or PnP RPGs in general, in the minds of the younger generation would be to have a mass imprisonment of an entire generation.
PnP role-playing games are among the most popular games for the intellectual prison population because the time invested into D&D or D&D-likes are well worth the time investment of a person who has twelve or fourteen hours in a day to spend and not much else to do.
Because the modern world has far more time constraints for both younger and older people that in the past we could consider prime gamer material. Instead of spending afternoons playing or preparing games, the High-schoolers who would have played are working towards highly-competitive colleges or are socializing with their peers. The Working Class and College-Students have so many more aspects of life to deal with (for reasons that stride confindently into the politics zone) than people did twenty to thirty years ago and therefore do not have the solid blocks of time necessary to make a D&D campaign a worthwhile investment.
The modern entertainment was built to be digestable at any time and for any part of time: Hulu for television, downloadable Podcast-radio, easy-access internet websites to read & write, and the persistant-world video games to play at any time of the day. D&D wasn't designed for this world and because of that isn't suited to compete in it. Decrying a generation of "potential" players deciding not to invest into the 30-year history of D&D is ignoring the world that exists now.
The population of possible D&D players are the Lesser-Social & Non-Competitive Youth and the Unemployed, with a chance that most of the respondants on ENWorld that "returned" to PnP RPGs being the Comfortably Affluent Gen X types who may have returned to D&D when they had the time to invest into it. The people who have played straight for 20 to 30 years haven't had to come up for air to see the world around them: Gary Gygax is dead, and so is the world he designed his successful game for.
PnP role-playing games are among the most popular games for the intellectual prison population because the time invested into D&D or D&D-likes are well worth the time investment of a person who has twelve or fourteen hours in a day to spend and not much else to do.
Because the modern world has far more time constraints for both younger and older people that in the past we could consider prime gamer material. Instead of spending afternoons playing or preparing games, the High-schoolers who would have played are working towards highly-competitive colleges or are socializing with their peers. The Working Class and College-Students have so many more aspects of life to deal with (for reasons that stride confindently into the politics zone) than people did twenty to thirty years ago and therefore do not have the solid blocks of time necessary to make a D&D campaign a worthwhile investment.
The modern entertainment was built to be digestable at any time and for any part of time: Hulu for television, downloadable Podcast-radio, easy-access internet websites to read & write, and the persistant-world video games to play at any time of the day. D&D wasn't designed for this world and because of that isn't suited to compete in it. Decrying a generation of "potential" players deciding not to invest into the 30-year history of D&D is ignoring the world that exists now.
The population of possible D&D players are the Lesser-Social & Non-Competitive Youth and the Unemployed, with a chance that most of the respondants on ENWorld that "returned" to PnP RPGs being the Comfortably Affluent Gen X types who may have returned to D&D when they had the time to invest into it. The people who have played straight for 20 to 30 years haven't had to come up for air to see the world around them: Gary Gygax is dead, and so is the world he designed his successful game for.
