How to kill a blue dragon?

[Orcus Porkus]

Otherwise, I do think either sleep or that chasm spell will be your best solution. I applaud all of you for coming up with "creative" run and hide type solutions... but somehow the fact that the DM threw a 6th lvl dragon against the 4th lvl party in a wide open area... kinda makes me believe he will not allow most of those, I would rather not chance those as my answer, and stick more straight to the rules...

Actually this encounter comes from a DM collective group in NYC where we experiment with stuff.

One of our members, Nicolas, came up with this strategy:

- The "silver bullet" power to have in this situation is probably the Lvl. 1 Wizard Illusion Daily Phantom Chasm -- it's a ranged 20 auto-crash on a Flying creature -- a hit Immobilizes AND knocks prone on a hit, but it still Immobilizes on a miss. So any flying creature within the area of effect is guaranteed to fall to the ground for at least 1 turn. And that fall from 10+ squares in the air is going to cause a fair amount of damage, all by itself. . .

- For the Strength defenders and strikers, Skewering Weapon (Lvl 3, +1) can Immobilize on a hit as a Daily. Can be applied to a spear, so Javelins and Tratnyrs count. The Eladrin Ranger I have as one of my PCs actually currently has a Skewering Tratnyr. Nice thing about this is, since you choose to use the Daily *after* you hit, you don't waste it on a miss.

- Another good tip is for Strength-based Defenders and Strikers who don't want to spend the gold on a Skewering Javelin is to strongly consider spending buying the much cheaper Javelin of Distance. It's a lvl. 1, +1 item, so it's only 360 gp, and it increases Javelin's range to 15/30. Cost is loss of additional damage on a crit. Well worth the trade off, IMHO.

- And yeah, once the dragon is knocked down to the ground, or at least below 10 squares, many other possibilities open up. There's a number of martial melee powers that knock prone and so will keep him on the ground. More spells etc. are available once the range gets closer as well. Also, alchemical items like Tanglefoot bags etc. Basically, once they've got the dragon down, the PCs have to do everything possible to keep it there; it's really important that someone who can keep the dragon on the ground for a turn or so makes his save against the Frightful Presence. . .

 

[Herschel]

Except the rules quoted above.

Squares 2 squares above the targeted square are "within a number of squares equal to the first number". As are squares 2 up and 2 north. Etc.

This is actually what the rules say, custserv confusion notwithstanding.

Then why is it a Fireball instead of a Firecube? A Flaming Sphere instead of a Flaming Box? A Mushroom Cloud instead of a Carnival Maul Cloud?

Just sayin', when things go *boom* they explode spherically, not cubically.

 

[Doctor Proctor]

While I can see that some of those strategies can work, one of the problems is that you're expecting a lot of situational factors to come together. The main problem I see is just that this encounter is one that most PC groups would be woefully unequipped to deal with at something like level 6.

I would like to think that a DM running this encounter would try to be nice to his players have the Dragon either come lower, or occasionally come down to the ground for some close attacks. Applying tactics like that will at least give the PC's a chance to do some damage.

Otherwise, you're either relying solely on Magic Missile and the archers, or expecting that they will have a lot of situational weaponry/powers to deal with a creature of exactly this type.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Anyone trying to use 'phantom chasm' to affect a flying creature in my campaign will find me laughing at them. It's flying, so it isn't worried about an imaginary chasm opening up 100ft below them on the ground.

I guess some people will say 'a spell is a spell, and it has the effects it has regardless - tweak the flavour to fit'. I'm old-school however. I like to see a spell which does something and then DM and players use common sense to apply it to various situations.

just sayin'

 

[Orcus Porkus]

Anyone trying to use 'phantom chasm' to affect a flying creature in my campaign will find me laughing at them. It's flying, so it isn't worried about an imaginary chasm opening up 100ft below them on the ground.

I guess some people will say 'a spell is a spell, and it has the effects it has regardless - tweak the flavour to fit'. I'm old-school however. I like to see a spell which does something and then DM and players use common sense to apply it to various situations.

just sayin'

I agree.
The monster is a level 6 solo, so it's appropriate for a level 4 party.

 

[Praesul]

Anyone trying to use 'phantom chasm' to affect a flying creature in my campaign will find me laughing at them. It's flying, so it isn't worried about an imaginary chasm opening up 100ft below them on the ground.

I guess some people will say 'a spell is a spell, and it has the effects it has regardless - tweak the flavour to fit'. I'm old-school however. I like to see a spell which does something and then DM and players use common sense to apply it to various situations.

just sayin'

Wow... I don't think I'd be playing long in your group then. That's rather harsh.

 

[-Avalon-]

Anyone trying to use 'phantom chasm' to affect a flying creature in my campaign will find me laughing at them. It's flying, so it isn't worried about an imaginary chasm opening up 100ft below them on the ground.

I guess some people will say 'a spell is a spell, and it has the effects it has regardless - tweak the flavour to fit'. I'm old-school however. I like to see a spell which does something and then DM and players use common sense to apply it to various situations.

just sayin'

That is because Spells, Dragons, Psionic Power, and Realism all go together, right?

"One of these things... is not like the other... One of these things..."

 

[cmbarona]

Anyone trying to use 'phantom chasm' to affect a flying creature in my campaign will find me laughing at them. It's flying, so it isn't worried about an imaginary chasm opening up 100ft below them on the ground.

I guess some people will say 'a spell is a spell, and it has the effects it has regardless - tweak the flavour to fit'. I'm old-school however. I like to see a spell which does something and then DM and players use common sense to apply it to various situations.

just sayin'

I have to agree with the general sentiment that this is a pretty harsh approach. Remember that saying "yes" is a skill! Why punish a player for choosing and using a power? I think it's fair to ask them to describe the illusion so that it properly affects a flying creature (the sensation of a great weight suddenly being applied to them, for example). Laughing at them for trying to use such a power only serves to satisfy your desire to make a player feel stupid.

 

[Doctor Proctor]

I have to agree with the general sentiment that this is a pretty harsh approach. Remember that saying "yes" is a skill! Why punish a player for choosing and using a power? I think it's fair to ask them to describe the illusion so that it properly affects a flying creature (the sensation of a great weight suddenly being applied to them, for example). Laughing at them for trying to use such a power only serves to satisfy your desire to make a player feel stupid.

This is especially true with something like illusion magic. We're not talking about reflavoring Flaming Sphere to be a ball of cold damage after all... We're talking about creating an illusion that immobilizes a creature. Why not give your players a chance to describe the illusion and how they could craft one that would affect a flying enemy? Or do you really that all illusion should be immutable powers that only create a static illusion regardless of who's casting them?

 

[Lord Zardoz]

It depends on the ranges involved, but I have a few ideas.

1) There are a number of Ranged At Will attacks. Wizards with magic Missile can still engage easily. Warlocks Eldritch blast should work fine. I think the Cleric may have a ranged at will, but the range is not very impressive.

2) Some Rogue and Ranger abilities do not care if you are using a melee attack or a ranged attack. Sneak attack in particular, if you can find some means to gain combat advantage over the dragon.

In general though, if your party lacks a Warlock, an Archery based Ranger, or a Wizard, you quickly run low on viable means of inflicting damage aside from basic attacks with ranged weapons.

3) Paladins Divine Challenge. This should at least inflict some damage on the dragon, at the cost of turning your Paladin into the Holy Lightning Rod of Antioch.

END COMMUNICATION