How to make a Duelist/Fencer Class?

[Miziziziz]

I wanted to make a Duelist class using the latest editions of Martial Power.
A typical fencer who wields a single rapier (perhaps a three-pronged dueling dagger too)
I guess it would implement the Acrobatic Rogue and the Tempest Fighter builds from Martial Power, and perhaps the Brawler from Martial Power 2 (for the bonuses of having one hand free).

The main idea is an character who can deal damage fast and has good survivability due to agility.

here's a link of an old Duelist class:
Duelist Character Class
However, that's first edition.

 

[OnlineDM]

I know nothing about older duelists, but I would expect that using the Thief or Slayer from Heroes of the Fallen Lands could make for a great character in this theme. The Thief would give you more maneuverability (fancy footwork) while the Slayer would give you better survivability (though you probably don't want your fencer to wear heavy armor).

I'd go with a rapier-wielding Thief, personally. He can get in, stab things, and get out.

 

[hafrogman]

It's an . . . odd selection, but for a while now I've had the idea that the best way to make a swashbuckler in 4e is to reskin an iron soul monk. You get an unarmored dex based melee combatant with a lot of movement, jumping and suchforth. Stay away from the more flamboyant powers, and you're golden.

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

There is a dungeon article with a lot of rapier feats in it (and most of them are pretty good) - they are certainly worth a look at.

I would go artful dodger rogue or essentials thief over any fighter build - they use light armour and "defending" (other than defending one's self) isn't really the role I see for a duelist.

 

[Unwise]

I really don't think there is a need to make a new class, there are so many options as is.


If you want to play up the tanking aspect, then:

- Berserker, arid background, runs around without armor being both a defender and DPS. Can have very good AC.

- A tempest fighter

- Swordmage in a higher magic campaign. Ask the GM to reskin the offhand being spare requirement into using a Main Gauche. Alternatively, assault spec is pretty swashbuckly with all its teleporting around.


For the Striker aspect:

- A melee ranger who just chooses lots of movement powers and the at-will with shifting.

- A scout is a damage machine and and uses the right weapons and armor.

- A theif, they shift around a lot and even have a 1v1 duelist stance.

- Ironsoul monk, good defence, a little stickability, good movement, decent damage.

- Artful Dodger rogue, has good damage and amazing movement powers.

- The Spellblade is a great duelist in a higher magic campaign too. Lots of controlling effects lead to cool flamboyant moves. Lots of repoiste too.

- Dex based slayer for a more simple approach. Can take lots of hits and can dish it out.

It seems that there is no shortage of options to work with to me. Many of which need very little reskinning and are even close to the base concept.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I wanted to make a Duelist class using the latest editions of Martial Power.
A typical fencer who wields a single rapier (perhaps a three-pronged dueling dagger too)
I guess it would implement the Acrobatic Rogue and the Tempest Fighter builds from Martial Power, and perhaps the Brawler from Martial Power 2 (for the bonuses of having one hand free).

The main idea is an character who can deal damage fast and has good survivability due to agility.

There was a dragon (#381) magazine article that tried to turn the 4e Rogue into a duelist. Of course, you have to have DDI to look at it.

It's an archetype that D&D has never really done well or tried to tackle as a core class, it's always an NPC class or PrC or build or kit or whatever, and it rarely worked well because of the system's dependence on armor for defense.

4e really lessened armor dependence, so a duelist would have been possible, if they hadn't declared that weird moratorium on new martial classes, thus limiting MP to new builds.

The light-armor/light-blade-using Rogue is the best candidate for a duelist. It's a striker, so damage is potentially good, and it's light-armored and agile. Some of it's exploits support the duelist flavor, but a lot of them really don't, so you'd need to be very selective. The main problem is generating CA in a 1:1 duel.

Fighter, being STR-based and a defender isn't such a good candidate. The ranger is a light-armored striker and a TWF fiend, but the TWF build is STR-based and has a hard time maintaining that light-armored agility. Warlord, of course, is right out.

There are also two sub-classes that are candidates. The Slayer makes an unlikely duelist, lacking any sort of exploits or finesse, but a Melee training feat makes it DEX-only SAD, and it does have a 'duelist stance' that'd be quite good for actual 1:1 duels. Even throwing away it's two-handed-weapon and heavy armor features it'd be a pretty deadly rapier-wielder. The Theif is the other option, it's good with a Rapier once you get proficiency, is light-armored, agile and can get CA without much help. But, like the Slayer, it lacks cool exploits to support the archetype.

If Rogues could take Thief 'Tricks' or Thieves take Rogue exploits you could cobble together a pretty good duelist.

Something like a Duelist might, oddly, have made a decent take on a melee-oriented martial controller (perhaps as one of several distinct builds of a broader class).

Actually creating a Duelist class would be a daunting undertaking under the 4e AEDU model. While the Essentials basic-attack-spamming martial approach would be a lot easier, it'd be hard to do the archetype justice with it.

 

[Miziziziz]

thanks for the replies!
I've been doing research, I see now obviously Fighter is a bad choice, so I went looking through the Rogue classes I know. I was thinking of choosing starting feat as Weapon proficiency in Rapier, and then getting Fencer-like abilities, such as Riposte. Artful Dodger for sure.

But all of you have covered that. I'll look into Thieves.
Also, a quick google found dragon article #381.

 

[Larrin]

I played a rapier/dagger wielding scout as a swashbuckler, and it fit me perfectly. With the right aspects you are very mobile, and you can choose utilities that aren't woodsy/magic but mobility.

I was lightly armoured, but good defense, high hit bonus, free shifts every round from aspects, could deal extra damage when an enemy was alone ( a duel...) from aspects, it felt like duelist/fencer/swashbuckler in every ways except those silly animal names my aspects had. I could also turn into a rat, (dead rat deserter theme), but thats neither here nor there.......
Reepicheep - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Miziziziz]

Reepicheep - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

lol

 

[CCamfield]

There's some good stuff for rogues, as people have mentioned.

A couple of things I used in my build (which I sadly didn't get to play much)
- there's an at-will, Clever Strike which grants you combat advantage when attacking an enemy adjacent to an ally who is able to attack. No need to be actually flanking, so if that suits your fancy...
- there's a feat from the Essentials books, Cunning Stalker, which no other creatures are adjacent to the enemy. The at-will Duelist's Flurry may be helpful for setting this up, though with the feat and Clever Strike that may well be enough.

Scout does sound pretty cool though. You could totally rename your aspects to different duelling styles like in the book version (more so than the movie) of the Princess Bride.