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How to not treat PC's like idiots (even when they are)?
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<blockquote data-quote="innerdude" data-source="post: 6920702" data-attributes="member: 85870"><p>I agree with Celebrim; there's really no one-size-fits-all solution to this problem. My groups are thankfully much more grounded in "real" character exploration than what you describe, @<em><strong><u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6788401" target="_blank">SailorNash</a></u></strong></em>, but don't get me wrong---there's still plenty of hijinks and general silliness to go around, more than I'd sometimes wish. </p><p></p><p>In terms of actually <em>solving</em> the problem, or at least making it better, there's only a few things I can think of that seem to make a difference for our group. </p><p></p><p>First, as a GM, you have to be willing to approach character actions and reactions from a "grounded" in-game perspective, meaning that you have to be willing to have the game world actually REACT in a plausible manner to what the PCs are doing. If the PCs are going around wreaking havoc, getting into bar fights, and acting like brute thugs, then the world should start reacting and treat them that way. Most civilizations historically have had very little tolerance for criminal behavior, especially the violent kind. If you can get it into your player's heads, that yes, the town guards WILL come after them for starting a riot, then sometimes it affects their behavior.</p><p></p><p>The other thing I've found as a GM is that the PCs have to have <em>something</em> they care about in the game world written into the fiction. If they are truly rootless, vagabond murderhobos and they couldn't care less if the town next door is burnt to the ground, then they'll generally act like it. If you want players to not act like witless morons, they have to have something their characters <em>value</em>, something they're willing to protect, and make sacrifices to protect. This can be a person/NPC, a place, a personal quest, an internal code of honor, doesn't really matter as long as it's real <em>to the character</em>, and they're willing to play their PC like it's real. </p><p></p><p>In reference to the above, as a GM I now mandate that every PC <em>will</em> have some element of their background that ties them to every other PC in the party. This is a non-negotiable element for me to run a game. If a player doesn't like it, they won't be playing in a game I run. In most cases I tend to make them all part of a single organization, which gives them a natural tie and sense of common purpose.</p><p></p><p>Last but not least, if you can give players the freedom to create some of the fiction on their own <em>and then live with what they've created</em>, it seems to help. When something in the fiction is conceived and brought to life by the player, they're less likely to discard it on a whim. This also helps with another problem, which is that RPGs often suffer from the syndrome where the player knows far, far less about the actual "world" the character inhabits than the character would. The characters in the game world would grasp vastly more about their situations and actions/consequences than can generally be conveyed by a GM. </p><p></p><p>Giving the players freedom to create some of the fiction on their own gives them a chance to create in their own minds something about the world that is fully concrete and real <em>to them</em>. They're not guessing about what it looks like, or trying to parse what the GM tells them about it; it simply becomes reality in the game world as they imagined it.</p><p></p><p>Finally, if anything I've described to you sounds like stuff your group wouldn't ever take seriously, then the problem is ultimately the group and you should get a new one. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="innerdude, post: 6920702, member: 85870"] I agree with Celebrim; there's really no one-size-fits-all solution to this problem. My groups are thankfully much more grounded in "real" character exploration than what you describe, @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6788401"]SailorNash[/URL][/U][/B][/I], but don't get me wrong---there's still plenty of hijinks and general silliness to go around, more than I'd sometimes wish. In terms of actually [I]solving[/I] the problem, or at least making it better, there's only a few things I can think of that seem to make a difference for our group. First, as a GM, you have to be willing to approach character actions and reactions from a "grounded" in-game perspective, meaning that you have to be willing to have the game world actually REACT in a plausible manner to what the PCs are doing. If the PCs are going around wreaking havoc, getting into bar fights, and acting like brute thugs, then the world should start reacting and treat them that way. Most civilizations historically have had very little tolerance for criminal behavior, especially the violent kind. If you can get it into your player's heads, that yes, the town guards WILL come after them for starting a riot, then sometimes it affects their behavior. The other thing I've found as a GM is that the PCs have to have [I]something[/I] they care about in the game world written into the fiction. If they are truly rootless, vagabond murderhobos and they couldn't care less if the town next door is burnt to the ground, then they'll generally act like it. If you want players to not act like witless morons, they have to have something their characters [I]value[/I], something they're willing to protect, and make sacrifices to protect. This can be a person/NPC, a place, a personal quest, an internal code of honor, doesn't really matter as long as it's real [I]to the character[/I], and they're willing to play their PC like it's real. In reference to the above, as a GM I now mandate that every PC [I]will[/I] have some element of their background that ties them to every other PC in the party. This is a non-negotiable element for me to run a game. If a player doesn't like it, they won't be playing in a game I run. In most cases I tend to make them all part of a single organization, which gives them a natural tie and sense of common purpose. Last but not least, if you can give players the freedom to create some of the fiction on their own [I]and then live with what they've created[/I], it seems to help. When something in the fiction is conceived and brought to life by the player, they're less likely to discard it on a whim. This also helps with another problem, which is that RPGs often suffer from the syndrome where the player knows far, far less about the actual "world" the character inhabits than the character would. The characters in the game world would grasp vastly more about their situations and actions/consequences than can generally be conveyed by a GM. Giving the players freedom to create some of the fiction on their own gives them a chance to create in their own minds something about the world that is fully concrete and real [I]to them[/I]. They're not guessing about what it looks like, or trying to parse what the GM tells them about it; it simply becomes reality in the game world as they imagined it. Finally, if anything I've described to you sounds like stuff your group wouldn't ever take seriously, then the problem is ultimately the group and you should get a new one. ;) [/QUOTE]
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