How to stop players from meta-gaming?

[Maerdwyn]

Play a session or two of Paranoia - the players will police their own metagaming


Gaim-R-MTA-1: "Look, there's no way he could have shot me - He needs to reload!"

Suck-R-BET-2: "Citizen! None of us is cleared to for information on a Mark IV Plasma Rifle! Traitor!"

*Everyone Blasts Gaim-R-MTA-1*

*Lernd-R-LSN-4 blasts Suck-R-BET-2 for revealing knowlege of the weapon's name, which is also above everyone's clearance level.*

 

[EarthsShadow]

How do you stop players from meta-gaming? This is easy to answer.

It's so simple.

You can't.

 

[Liminal Syzygy]

A couple of things not mentioned so far:

1) As suggested in the DMG, set up situations in which using metagame knowledge backfires

2) As I have told my own group about metagaming in combat - The more metagaming I see the more your opposition is going to happen to "luckily" make the right decisions. On the other hand if characters act realistically, not acting as if they know what just happened around the corner in the silence spell, I'll play the opposition normally, completely within the bounds of what they would know - the way I prefer to play it as combat is much more interesting.

 

[Cloudgatherer]

It'll probably exist at some level in all games. However, if the players aren't doing a good job of distinguishing character knowledge from player knowledge then you could use that against them.

For instance, the party meets a troll for the first time. Metagame thoughts: fire and acid kills trolls. Way to use this against people who metagame: change the troll's weakness. Fire and acid *heal* this special troll (but he is vulnerable to electricity).

Also, if they are metagaming based on your personality, try something strange or something they wouldn't expect. Easier said than done, but they won't see it coming. Even better would be to give enough information for their characters to possibly figure it out, and have their metagaming get in the way...

Anyhow, you can fight metagaming with metagaming, but this is only one approach (others have been suggested).

 

[Blockader7]

Try to get them to talk in non meta-game terms.

For example: instead of saying this ability gives this number bonus, try to get them to say something like "The advantage I have is greater accuracy with this weapon due to my years of experience." Instead of "What's his level"? Try to explain it in terms of having this many years of experience with this profession. And try to stay away from things that are uncommon.
Such as certain prestige classes that operate secretly, such as the Blackguard. Nobody would go advertising they're a child molester, much less a Blackguard, for example.

After all, do we really go about in life saying "Oh I'm a 10th level accountant or a 15th level math teacher"? and so on.

Also some training of the players might be in order as well.

 

[Gothmog]

Originally posted by Cordo:

2) As I have told my own group about metagaming in combat - The more metagaming I see the more your opposition is going to happen to "luckily" make the right decisions. On the other hand if characters act realistically, not acting as if they know what just happened around the corner in the silence spell, I'll play the opposition normally, completely within the bounds of what they would know - the way I prefer to play it as combat is much more interesting.

Good call Cordo. Nothing is as annoying at the table as this practice many players seem to have.

When I started my D&D game 12 years ago (was 2E then, converted to 3E), I knew I had two guys in the group who were notorious meta-gamers. They were bad enough that before making attack rolls, they would calculated probable chances to hit for each creature they wanted to attack, and routinely abused player knowledge. I also wanted to run a game much more on the immersive role-playing side in a dark, grim world. What did I do?

I kept ALL the numbers from the players, including hit points, AC, BAB (or THAC0 then), magic item plusses, saves, etc. They got a sheet of notebook paper to write their possessions on, and the spellcasters could reference spells in the PHB, but that was it. Opening the MM during play was grounds for a 1000 XP penalty. At the end of every round, I would give the players a rough idea of how wounded they were % wise, but nothing past that.

You know what? The meta-gaming gits stopped- completely. Since there were no numbers to crunch and no stats to min-max, there isn't as much to distract the player from the game. In fact, the meta-gamers started role-playing through opening a business, a failed courtship, and personal doubts about his religion (he was a paladin). Now we look back and joke about how bad those players used to be- they can't believe they used to be such twinks.

One word of warning though- when we first did this, they did scream bloody murder, so you have to make sure the players trust you as the DM before you do this. Hope that helps you.

 

[Norfleet]

Try to get them to talk in non meta-game terms.
After all, do we really go about in life saying "Oh I'm a 10th level accountant or a 15th level math teacher"? and so on.

Yes, in fact, we do. It's phrased in terms of the degrees one holds and the number of years he's been doing it, but the effect is the same.

And people don't meta-game in real life? I know that I, at least, have always approached life as a min-max optimization problem: What do I do to get the most payoff for the least cost, and what can I do to further offset that cost by making it irrelevant? Some odd individuals have suggested this is not how to approach life, but I silence them with the stare of disdain followed by the eye-roll of disgust for the stupidly pathetic.

Why would characters be so different, unless they just happen to be stupid characters?

 

[Maerdwyn]

Yes, in fact, we do. It's phrased in terms of the degrees one holds and the number of years he's been doing it, but the effect is the same.

And people don't meta-game in real life? I know that I, at least, have always approached life as a min-max optimization problem: What do I do to get the most payoff for the least cost, and what can I do to further offset that cost by making it irrelevant? Some odd individuals have suggested this is not how to approach life, but I silence them with the stare of disdain followed by the eye-roll of disgust for the stupidly pathetic.

Why would characters be so different, unless they just happen to be stupid characters?

Well, metagaming, at least as I see it, is different from min-maxing, in that involves a character using knowledge that he just doesn't have. You can't, by definition, meta-game your own life. Only the player running you as a chracter could do that.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

Originally posted by Cordo:

<SNIP>

I kept ALL the numbers from the players, including hit points, AC, BAB (or THAC0 then), magic item plusses, saves, etc. They got a sheet of notebook paper to write their possessions on, and the spellcasters could reference spells in the PHB, but that was it. Opening the MM during play was grounds for a 1000 XP penalty. At the end of every round, I would give the players a rough idea of how wounded they were % wise, but nothing past that.

You know what? The meta-gaming gits stopped- completely. Since there were no numbers to crunch and no stats to min-max, there isn't as much to distract the player from the game. In fact, the meta-gamers started role-playing through opening a business, a failed courtship, and personal doubts about his religion (he was a paladin). Now we look back and joke about how bad those players used to be- they can't believe they used to be such twinks.

One word of warning though- when we first did this, they did scream bloody murder, so you have to make sure the players trust you as the DM before you do this. Hope that helps you.

I'm glad things worked out for you. I wouldn't recomend this unless you have a really good relationship with your players. This could so easily backfire horiblely.

 

[Gothmog]

Originally posted by Brown Jenkin:

I'm glad things worked out for you. I wouldn't recomend this unless you have a really good relationship with your players. This could so easily backfire horiblely.

Yep, I agree completely- thats why I made the same disclaimer in the last paragraph of my reply. I will say though- to see a hardcore meta-gaming power-gamer roleply through his paladin's crisis of faith WITHOUT A DIE ROLL- well, its enough to bring a tear to any DM's eye.