How Visible To players Should The Rules Be?

[Reynard]

Should is a matter of preference. They certainly can be and nothing bad happens. They don't need to be hidden.

I know there's a sentiment that the characters don't know how many HP an enemy has so the players should not know. But I don't think that sentiment makes much sense, nor is it very tenable.

What is untenable about it? What does it break?

 

[Corinnguard]

Does this mean that you think that say, monster hit points and armor class, or skill check DCs should be known to players up front?

The only time a PC should know how many hit points or AC a monster has is if they have a class feature that allows them to figure out those stats. Ex. the Know Your Enemy feature of the Fighter (Battle Master). It's more challenging if you don't know their stats right away.

 

[prabe]

The only time a PC should know how many hit points or AC a monster has is if they have a class feature that allows them to figure out those stats. Ex. the Know Your Enemy feature of the Fighter (Battle Master). It's more challenging if you don't know their stats right away.

I will announce the monsters' AC after a round or two, just for the sake of speeding things up, and if the players want to know which monsters are closer to going down, I'll often tell them that in the form of "On a scale of 1 to 147, this guy looks like about a 43." Someone in a fight with a thing will absolutely know A) how hard it is to effectively hit that thing and B) how badly hurt that thing is.

EDIT: I'm not sure, however, that "opponent combat capabilities and values" are the same thing exactly as "rules" in the sense the OP was asking about.

 

[payn]

I think the hidden rules idea supports two ideas. The first is to prevent metagaming. The second is to promote skill play. Neither of which im too concerned about. Put me in players have access to rules camp.

 

[payn]

I will announce the monsters' AC after a round or two, just for the sake of speeding things up, and if the players want to know which monsters are closer to going down, I'll often tell them that in the form of "On a scale of 1 to 147, this guy looks like about a 43." Someone in a fight with a thing will absolutely know A) how hard it is to effectively hit that thing and B) how badly hurt that thing is.

EDIT: I'm not sure, however, that "opponent combat capabilities and values" are the same thing exactly as "rules" in the sense the OP was asking about.

I;ve adopted the bloodied term to let the players know south of 50% but that typically all they get during a fight.

 

[prabe]

I;ve adopted the bloodied term to let the players know south of 50% but that typically all they get during a fight.

That's a reasonable approach, and it's probably more or less what the players are actually asking. At this point, though, my approach is kinda a running gag. (And it gives them more information, which will sometimes matter.)

 

[DragonLancer]

I;ve adopted the bloodied term to let the players know south of 50% but that typically all they get during a fight.

We tend to say Physical at 50% HP and Critical at 10%. It was used that way by the Pathfinder Society group that we used to play with and it stuck with us.

 

[hawkeyefan]

What is untenable about it? What does it break?

It’s untenable because just by taking part in the game and simple observation, the players will learn the rules. Or, many of them, at least.

Like the hidden AC. Forget that AC represents things that are mostly observable, so sharing it seems reasonable… after a few rolls in combat, it’s usually pretty obvious what a creature’s AC is. “Oh, I missed when I rolled a 14, but then Tom hit when he rolled a 15.” It doesn’t take a rules lawyer to figure that one out.

So why not just share it ahead of time?

 

[DragonLancer]

The only time a PC should know how many hit points or AC a monster has is if they have a class feature that allows them to figure out those stats.

I never tell them. It's information that they don't need to know. Keeps monsters scary and the characters on their toes.

 

[Corinnguard]

So why not just share it ahead of time?

How would knowing an opponent's AC beforehand help you out? If you know the AC beforehand, you're still rolling a d20 and adding the appropriate modifiers to see if your character's attack is going to miss, be turned aside by your opponent's AC, or is going to successfully hit.