How Visible To players Should The Rules Be?

[Corinnguard]

I rather feel this is no longer using the term appropriately. It is not Chekhov's Toybox.

It's also not the proverbial kitchen sink.

 

[Reynard]

It's also not the proverbial kitchen sink.

What does this mean?

 

[Corinnguard]

What does this mean?

It means that the players need to concentrate on whatever specific problem is before them, instead of imagining extra features.

 

[billd91]

It is only a Chekhov's Gun if the PCs follow up and make that thing the focus of the game. In other words: the analogy doesn't hold up in the sandbox situation. It is a specifically literary device. Why are we arguing about it in relation to play?

I think of things that are helpful for resolving a local situation in an adventuring site in the sandbox. Seed them early so they can be of use. For example, if there's an unusually strong undead creature that will be an obstacle to the exploration of an adventure site (like a dinosaur skeleton), an earlier location in that site may have tools helpful for dealing with that creature, should the PCs realize their significance, something like a control undead scroll. Or items that are unusual and not just set dressing having a significance later on at that adventuring site or a related one or offering insight to the nature of the site.
All of these would have inherent significance to the adventuring site and potential play that would occur there.

 

[Reynard]

I think of things that are helpful for resolving a local situation in an adventuring site in the sandbox. Seed them early so they can be of use. For example, if there's an unusually strong undead creature that will be an obstacle to the exploration of an adventure site (like a dinosaur skeleton), an earlier location in that site may have tools helpful for dealing with that creature, should the PCs realize their significance, something like a control undead scroll. Or items that are unusual and not just set dressing having a significance later on at that adventuring site or a related one or offering insight to the nature of the site.
All of these would have inherent significance to the adventuring site and potential play that would occur there.

What if the PCs discover the undead monster first, then retreat and go looking for something to help, eventually hearing about the scroll?

That's what I mean about the analogy not holding up.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I think of things that are helpful for resolving a local situation in an adventuring site in the sandbox. Seed them early so they can be of use. For example, if there's an unusually strong undead creature that will be an obstacle to the exploration of an adventure site (like a dinosaur skeleton), an earlier location in that site may have tools helpful for dealing with that creature, should the PCs realize their significance, something like a control undead scroll. Or items that are unusual and not just set dressing having a significance later on at that adventuring site or a related one or offering insight to the nature of the site.
All of these would have inherent significance to the adventuring site and potential play that would occur there.

Yes, potential. The players might also sidestep them completely and use what you meant to be just set dressing to solve the issue.

 

[overgeeked]

People should read up on fronts and clocks. You can have Checkov’s Gun in a sandbox. Just because the PCs don’t interact with something does not mean it’s static or in stasis unless/until they do. Having things occur off-screen is a big part of making the sandbox feel like a living, breathing, and changing place.

 

[Corinnguard]

Having things occur off-screen is a big part of making the sandbox feel like a living, breathing, and changing place.

Not just having them, but also learning how the party's actions in one session produced an effect later on in another part of the adventure. A couple sessions ago, my party rescued some hostages from a cult that was planning to sacrifice them to resurrect an evil deity. When my party decided to go out and find the cult again, we discovered from some cult members on how our act to free the hostages threw their plans and their organization into disarray. The party's reaction upon hearing that was "We did that to them?"

 

[Micah Sweet]

People should read up on fronts and clocks. You can have Checkov’s Gun in a sandbox. Just because the PCs don’t interact with something does not mean it’s static or in stasis unless/until they do. Having things occur off-screen is a big part of making the sandbox feel like a living, breathing, and changing place.

That's true, but that doesn't make anything a Chekhov's gun.

Also, fronts and clocks are narrative game terms, and I'm allergic to those

 

[Corinnguard]

That's true, but that doesn't make anything a Chekhov's gun.

Also, fronts and clocks are narrative game terms, and I'm allergic to those

I need a translation for fronts and clocks for an Insight check. What exactly do those terms mean?