How Visible To players Should The Rules Be?

[Corinnguard]

No but in the opinion of some of us, giving the number makes for a better-informed decision and a better game.

Let's say that during a game session, your party came across a monster or a party of monsters and the GM gave you everything you needed to know about them. What would you do with that knowledge? How quickly can you put it to good use? And more importantly, will the dice go your way?

 

[Thomas Shey]

Let's say that during a game session, your party came across a monster or a party of monsters and the GM gave you everything you needed to know about them. What would you do with that knowledge? How quickly can you put it to good use? And more importantly, will the dice go your way?

It can tell me whether engaging with them or getting the heck out is a better plan, and also how much I want to expend limited resources at least.

 

[Corinnguard]

It can tell me whether engaging with them or getting the heck out is a better plan, and also how much I want to expend limited resources at least.

I could see this happening. A party of adventurers comes across one or more monsters while exploring some place, and the monsters are completely unaware of them. The party might be upwind of them, they might be stealthing it, whatever. The monsters don't know that they are there. What could the party do at this point?

They could come up with a plan on how to carefully and quickly take out the monsters, and then launch a surprise attack with advantage. If the party knows next to nothing about the monsters, then they are taking a risk which may or may not go their way. They're gambling on the chance that they'll succeed with their surprise attack. If they are really good, maybe they'll even come up with a contingency plan on the chance that things don't go their way.
Now what if the DM gave the player characters everything they needed to know about the monsters (ACs, HPs, resistances/immunities, etc.) without needing to figure it out on their own through a skill check on Arcana, Religion, Nature, etc. before they launched their surprise attack? Well then they are minimizing their risks even more. They know the monsters' strengths and weaknesses. They know which member of the party has the best chance of taking on a particular monster. They have a greater chance at succeeding. Of course, if they know that the monsters are too powerful for them, they can always not engage and work their way around them. So it's something of a win-win for such a party.

But how often does a party come across one or more monsters without the latter noticing them in return? I can't imagine it being very often. And how often is the party prepared to handle the monsters when the two groups do eventually meet? They might be prepared to handle some of the monsters, but not all of the monsters they might meet.

D&D is a game of chance.

 

[Maxperson]

No but in the opinion of some of us, giving the number makes for a better-informed decision and a better game.

Also, in the Real World(TM) there are official numbers attached to give Official Meaning to terms equivalent to things like "easy to hit":
View attachment 353176
If the GM isn't using fixed defined chances for his "easy to hit, very easy to hit, moderately hard to hit" etc then he's leaving out information that Official Government Agencies consider Very Important for making informed decisions. And if the GM is using fixed defined chances, then why not just go ahead and use the numbers directly?

(table is from https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICD/ICD-203_TA_Analytic_Standards_21_Dec_2022.pdf)

Those seem right and match up to what people I've games with think.

 

[Edgar Ironpelt]

Let's say that during a game session, your party came across a monster or a party of monsters and the GM gave you everything you needed to know about them. What would you do with that knowledge? How quickly can you put it to good use? And more importantly, will the dice go your way?

It helps create the sense that I am there; that it is my character dealing with the monsters rather than an NPC that I'm running as a favor for the GM.

And if I take your point that this information doesn't give me-the-player useful knowledge, then that's also a point against the common arguments of bad things happening to the game if the players know too much.

 

[Thomas Shey]

D&D is a game of chance.

Yeah, but keep in mind, again, this thread isn't just about D&D, and even within that, there are things you can do to put your thumb on the scale, and the degree to which that's useful depends to one degree or another, on the information available.

 

[Corinnguard]

Yeah, but keep in mind, again, this thread isn't just about D&D, and even within that, there are things you can do to put your thumb on the scale, and the degree to which that's useful depends to one degree or another, on the information available.

Fair enough. This is a TTRPG General thread, not a thread exclusive to D&D.

 

[Lanefan]

No but in the opinion of some of us, giving the number makes for a better-informed decision and a better game.

Also, in the Real World(TM) there are official numbers attached to give Official Meaning to terms equivalent to things like "easy to hit":
View attachment 353176
If the GM isn't using fixed defined chances for his "easy to hit, very easy to hit, moderately hard to hit" etc then he's leaving out information that Official Government Agencies consider Very Important for making informed decisions. And if the GM is using fixed defined chances, then why not just go ahead and use the numbers directly?

(table is from https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICD/ICD-203_TA_Analytic_Standards_21_Dec_2022.pdf)

Interesting table.

Problems arise, however, when the chance of something is set right at, say, 80%: do you describe it as "likely" or "very likely"?

 

[Lanefan]

It can tell me whether engaging with them or getting the heck out is a better plan, and also how much I want to expend limited resources at least.

If it's a monster you've never seen before, the bolded should only be learned the hard way.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It helps create the sense that I am there; that it is my character dealing with the monsters rather than an NPC that I'm running as a favor for the GM.

And if I take your point that this information doesn't give me-the-player useful knowledge, then that's also a point against the common arguments of bad things happening to the game if the players know too much.

Having the DM give you the numbers helps your immersion?

People really are different.