How would I go about adding a brand new ability to an artifact?

[Dante & Vergil]

I have an artifact, that wants to have the ability to utilize and/or summon previous users of said artifact that died wearing/using it, but I don't think that there is anything in the books that would enable this. If I were to make a new ability for this artifact to use, what rank would be balanced for it?

 

[Beefermatic]

Use your best judgment, that's a tough power to quantify though, most powers are static, so something that can bring back previous users is highly variable. I'd say, make some limiting factor based on the HD of the previous user trying to be summoned so it can't just be abused, and make it so as the wielder gains Divine Rank they have to sink more and more of their artifact cost, scaled appropriately of course, into the artifact to summon stronger and stronger previous users. As a baseline, make it a +6 equivalent I'd say.

 

[Dante & Vergil]

Fair enough. Thank you!!!

 

[Beefermatic]

Fair enough. Thank you!!!

No problemo!

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey there Dante & Vergil!

...do like a bit of Devil May Cry myself.

Firstly thanks to Beefermatic for replying already. Cheers amigo.

I have an artifact, that wants to have the ability to utilize and/or summon previous users of said artifact that died wearing/using it, but I don't think that there is anything in the books that would enable this.

Sounds tangentially a bit like the Hand of Kwll from the Eternal Champion Corum series (a favourite of mine), reading the Elric series at the moment FWIW.

Hand of Kwll

The Hand of Kwll is a supernatural artefact that was grafted onto the stump of Corum Jhaelen Irsei's missing left hand. It has the appearance of a six-fingered jeweled gauntlet of alien design. In reality, it is the actual severed hand of the Lost God Kwll, having been cut off eons before. The...

stormbringer.fandom.com

If I were to make a new ability for this artifact to use, what rank would be balanced for it?

I think the first question to answer is who created the artifact, as that will determine the ceiling limit of the power.

In the case of the Hand of Kwll, Kwll would be a power beyond the Greater Gods. The Hand allowed Corum to summon those he had slain (seemingly on a per encounter basis in that if he killed a group of monsters in one fight he could summon the spirits of the whole group to aid him in the next fight). In this instance its unknown if the hand could 'contain' the power of beings greater than Kwll and that might be a moot point anyway given you would still need to defeat them in combat.

Your artifact allows the wielder to summon the spirits of the previous users. My suggestion as to how this operates is that summoning each past user extols a heavy penance upon the wearer.

For instance lets say the artifact summoned a great champion of lore (a powerful fighter). At the end of the encounter, your character is "weakened" for the next 3 (meaningful* ) encounters.

*as determined by the DM (so you can't cheat and just go off and face three groups of random goblins).

Whatever the summoned creature is good at, after the fight your character becomes weak towards - for 3 encounters. Make this encounter based, not time based so you cannot just wait out a time limit.

Hypothetically you could summon multiple spirits - but each enacts its own personal toll upon the wielder's mind, body and soul.

As to how to balance the power of the summoned spirits. Firstly, make sure they siphon some share of the XP rewarded. If the summoned spirit is more powerful than the summoner, then consider them siphoning two or more shares of the XP as follows.

For instance if your character is Level 18 ( = CR 12, NB. CR is 2/3rds Level ) and the summoned character is CR 16, then give them two shares of XP (+1 share). If they are CR 20 give them 3 shares (+2 shares), CR 24 give them 5 shares (+4 shares), CR 28 give them 9 shares (+8 shares), etc. Double the number of shares for every 4 points of CR above the wielder.

With this method, if the summoned spirits are doing all the 'heavy lifting' in the encounter, then they'll be getting the bulk of the XP from the group) and the wielder will be suffering the detrimental effects.

You might even add a small clause that the penance affects the whole group to a small extent (though not to the same extent as the wielder). Or that the wielder can share the penance among multiple characters to reduce the amount of encounters the effect lasts for.

Anyway, hope some of those ideas help.

 

[Dante & Vergil]

By weakened, could that be represented by a number unnegatable negative levels that last for 3 meaningful encounters, or would it be better to try something else?
Edit: Also as a side note, if I wanted to incorporate an epic spell inside of an artifact, is there a way with these rules to do that?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey there Dante & Vergil!

By weakened, could that be represented by a number unnegatable negative levels that last for 3 meaningful encounters, or would it be better to try something else?

By weakened I just meant the 5e Condition which halves the damage you deal.

But if you wanted to keep it super-simple rather than levels I would just use a penalty to Proficiency Bonus (as in Halve it or something like that, for 3 encounters).

Although if the summoned spirits were all unique beings; I like the idea of tailoring the Penance to something relevant to each summoned spirit.

If you are using 3.5e, rather than negative levels (which are a bit clunky to calculate) I would just halve an ability score instead.

Edit: Also as a side note, if I wanted to incorporate an epic spell inside of an artifact, is there a way with these rules to do that?

Well, one question to ask is whether this is a mortal using the artifact or a god? The way I balance artifacts a bit is that Gods don't suffer the drawbacks that artifacts have but mortals do. So balancing out an epic spell I would have a prominent MAJOR drawback/penalty on the artifact, so that if a mortal uses those powerful magics there will be ramifications. But if its just a god using the artifact then it will probably be able to use the epic spell (depending on what it is) once per day/week/month/year etc. The more powerful the epic spell, the less often you can use it.

 

[Dante & Vergil]

Hey there Dante & Vergil!



By weakened I just meant the 5e Condition which halves the damage you deal.

But if you wanted to keep it super-simple rather than levels I would just use a penalty to Proficiency Bonus (as in Halve it or something like that, for 3 encounters).

Although if the summoned spirits were all unique beings; I like the idea of tailoring the Penance to something relevant to each summoned spirit.

If you are using 3.5e, rather than negative levels (which are a bit clunky to calculate) I would just halve an ability score instead.



Well, one question to ask is whether this is a mortal using the artifact or a god? The way I balance artifacts a bit is that Gods don't suffer the drawbacks that artifacts have but mortals do. So balancing out an epic spell I would have a prominent MAJOR drawback/penalty on the artifact, so that if a mortal uses those powerful magics there will be ramifications. But if its just a god using the artifact then it will probably be able to use the epic spell (depending on what it is) once per day/week/month/year etc. The more powerful the epic spell, the less often you can use it.

Halve an ability score? Ok that could work. A penance designed around each specific spirit is a really cool idea.
So if a mortal had access to it, they suffer the drawbacks, whatever they may be. Would they still be able to use it as often as a god, even with the drawbacks? Also, I'd figured it would use the Spell Craft DC in the equation for the item, I just don't know how.
Sorry about how this is formatted, I don't how to separate the quote boxes.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello again buddy!

Halve an ability score?

Yes.

Ok that could work. A penance designed around each specific spirit is a really cool idea.

Very simply you could just halve the most relevant ability score to the summoned spirit.

So if a mortal had access to it, they suffer the drawbacks, whatever they may be.

There are a bunch of Major Drawbacks in the 5e DMG (I can't remember if they were in 3rd edition off the top of my head).

Gods can use artifacts without suffering the drawbacks (unless they were antithetical to the artifact itself - such as an evil deity trying to use a holy artifact), but mortals suffer the drawbacks.

Would they still be able to use it as often as a god, even with the drawbacks?

I would say yes, but if the artifact in question was notably far beyond the personal power of the wielder then I would expect someone more powerful to just kill them and take it.

Mortals don't just casually walk around with artifacts that can destroy cities. Someone (more powerful) is just going to come along and take it from them.

Sorry about how this is formated, I don't how to separate the quote boxes.

No worries amigo.

In the grey text boxes just choose where you want to separate the text and hit your Enter or Return key a few times to drop the spacing - just like you would on a normal paragraph.

 

[Dante & Vergil]

It seems like I need to look up the 5e Books for some of this stuff.